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dave jenkins
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« #480 : October 15, 2012, 05:29:46 AM »


It was the "European theatrical cut," or the film as it appeared on the two-DVD set.  DeNiro spoke briefly--of course--and did say that he worked a year on the picture, and that Sergio seemed to never want to stop making the movie, the implication being so great was his enthusiasm for it.  I will say this: I saw OUATIA at MOMA about five years ago, and this didn't seem to be in better shape than I remember that print being, although it's quite possible the quality of the DVD has obscured my sense of its quality on the big screen.  Maybe it was just the projector's illumination, but it seemed fairly dark at times.  MOMA's presentation of Scorsese's restoration of OUATITW a few years back was a noticeable upgrade over my previous theatre-going experiences of that film.  Almost forgot: Burt Young was in attendance, and stood up to good applause prior to DeNiro's appearance.
OK. Glad I didn't go then. I still wish those MoMA guys would write less confusing copy, though.



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« #481 : October 15, 2012, 02:45:52 PM »

That's why I suggested the number. 3,000 seems like the safe estimate for "classic films" (those more than 20 years old). Twilight Time (and I'm guessing others) don't take chances (they have to pay for the license up front). If OUATIA had never been released on Blu-ray before I'd guess higher, but I don't think there are that many people who are going to buy the blu-ray twice.

Let's say they actually sell twice as many units as I guess, or triple. That's still under 10,000. As far as potential viewers are concerned (home video plus special screenings plus festivals but not TV), maybe at most they could reach 40-50,000. Even granting 100,000, we are still nowhere near the "millions" mentioned.

I was addressing the interest in seeing the restored version, not the number of people that will purchase the disc.


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« #482 : October 15, 2012, 03:41:11 PM »

One is the index of the other.



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« #483 : October 20, 2012, 05:21:41 AM »

 O0 O0 O0


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« #484 : October 20, 2012, 07:13:46 AM »

... on a special channel "Sergio Leone HD"...

Wow an HD channel dedicated to nothing but Sergio Leone - sounds awesome.

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This post gets Agnew's stamp of approval!


« #485 : October 20, 2012, 09:29:50 AM »

All directors should be so lucky!



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« #486 : October 20, 2012, 05:36:31 PM »




Sky.it has given a date of Dec 7, 2012 for the new Blu-ray and DVD to be followed later by a box set of both new and old versions.


----

Several sites are reporting that the new version will premiere on Cubovision - TV Telecom Italy (also available on PCs, tablets and smartphones) on Oct 25 and on a special channel "Sergio Leone HD" on Oct 30, 2012.

  


RE: the dvd/blu ray, any word on whether it will only be Region 2, or if it'll be region-free?


RE: the movie being "available on PC's, tablets, and smartphones," any further info about that? I guess that would mean that we in America can get it too?

Also, has an official running time been listed for the version in theaters and/or the dvd/blu ray? Cuz Scorses mentioned something about possibly even more footage being restored (in addition to what was restored and shown at Cannes) and I am wondering if that is really going to happen?


Thanks for the info  O0


« : October 20, 2012, 05:38:22 PM drinkanddestroy »

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« #487 : October 21, 2012, 03:20:04 AM »



Anyone yet figured out the significance of the tractor and bucket behind the garbage truck?

 

I believe here's the deal:

in a trestored scene, while Noodles is visiting the graves of his friends in the mausoleum, he speaks with the cemetery's director, played by Louise Fletcher, who explains to him that a "Mr. Aaronson" is the one that paid for this mausoleum, and sent a tape with the song (Cockeye's Tune) to play there. Then Noodles sees a limousine following him at the cemetery, and he writes down the limo's license plate.

Soon thereafter, in another deleted scene, Noodles is outside Bailey's estate, where he sees the same limo blow up -- the same car that's on the news report he watches on the tv at Fat Moe's (I guess the reason he was at the estate in the first place is either because by this time he's figured out that Secretary Bailey has something to do with this mystery of why he was brought back). And Noodles sees the garbage truck outside the mansion too -- the same garbage truck that he sees outside the mansion at the end of the movie, in which Bailey seemingly kills himself.

--

As we've discussed here, with these added scenes, the matter of Noodles' return takes on much more of a literal meaning, as a real mystery; in the 229MV, there was much less of this literal mystery.

---

Leone said that the garbage truck is a reference to Jimmy Hoffa, who disappeared mysteriously (and whose death has still never been solved), Frayling quoted Leone saying that a garbage truck was seen outside his house for 3 days before his disappearance. However, it is obvious that the James Conway O'Donnell (played by Treat Williams) is also inspired by Hoffa: after all, Bailey is a corrupt politician with union ties who is connected with a scandal over the misuse of union pension funds; but ODonnell is the actual corrupt head of the national union of truckers! So while I have seen Leone quotes discussing the Hoffa inspiration with Bailey but I've never seen any quotes where Leone explicitly mentions the Hoffa inspiration with O'Donnell, there is no doubt whatsoever that both their characters are actually partially inspired by Hoffa


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« #488 : October 21, 2012, 08:17:17 AM »



  
SPOILER:  Some may prefer not to know what is in the extended version or to see all the additional scenes in full. If so, please do not read further or click on the following link.  Four days ago La Stampa.it uploaded an item about the additional scenes and a video of over 20 minutes showing the additional scenes in full.  After the gang go swimming in a car and come to the surface, there is a nearby dredger with a large bucket containing waste and we cut to Noodles and a tractor with a bucket containing waste behind a garbage truck in 1968. Full scenes of the exploding car, the matching number plates and Noodles meeting Eve etc.


http://tinyurl.com/9xywmlx


 

I don't think you have to worry about spoiler alerts, if you read the pages on this thread since Cannes, we've discussed pretty extensively all the added scenes, I think everyone here knows what they are already  ;)

Of course, it would have been great if we could have seen the new version without knowing what was in it, but of course, knowing that i wasn't going to be able to view it for a while after it was shown at Cannes, there was no way I was going to have the self-control to avoid finding out what the added scenes were.

Long before the announcement of the restoration, there has been a script floating around of the movie which includes the added scenes, as well as a separate document with just those added scenes. Both docs are available here http://msb247.awardspace.com/ (click "Links & Downloads)

« : October 21, 2012, 08:19:00 AM drinkanddestroy »

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« #489 : October 22, 2012, 08:26:28 AM »


Even in the original version with an additional 50 minutes or in the shooting script, Noodles' arrival outside Bailey's mansion for the first time is not explained.

 

well at some point, he has received an invitatio to Bailey's party -- we never find out if that's in the original letter he received that caused him to come to New York (but he never mentions it to Fat Moe), or if some messenger delivers it to him while he's staying at Fat Moe's.

Either way, once we find out later he's received an invitation to a party there, it makes sense that he's be outside a few days before -- if you got an invite to a mysterious party on some fancy mansion, maybe you'd first wanna find out wt is going on. He knows that Bailey has something to do with his return, a fact made much clearer in this restored version. In the 229MV, we really never see any justification for why Noodles should be so intently watching this news story about the Bailey scandal. I guess you could say it's because he used to be involved in the early labor movement, so it still makes sense that Fat Moe would ask him "you know those guys?" But this point is brought out more clearly in the 229MV, that Noodles has a reason to be watching that news program, and to know that this Bailey scandal has something to do with the key to his return


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« #490 : November 19, 2012, 10:57:40 PM »

Check out the Italian website Once Upon A Time In America Extended Version some intresting stuff in there, including

Video
Fotos
Biography
Articles
Cast
Crew
Research
Restoration

http://ceraunavoltainamerica.it/




« : November 19, 2012, 11:55:40 PM Derbent 5000 »
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« #491 : November 19, 2012, 11:42:00 PM »

And this animated menu of the future italian Bluray includes some added scenes of cleopatra

http://vimeo.com/49382733



Bluray and DVD Dec 4 in Italy

http://www.animangaplus.it/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1375&catid=34&Itemid=54



http://www.dvd-store.it/DVD/Blu-Ray/ID-42655/C-era-una-volta-in-America-Edizione-Integrale.aspx

http://www.dvdland.it/nicom1/p_576566/blu_ray/c_era_una_volta_in_america_extended_cut_blu_ray.html


« : November 20, 2012, 12:08:49 AM Derbent 5000 »
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« #492 : November 20, 2012, 09:12:11 AM »


SPOILER:  Some may prefer not to know what is in the extended version or to see all the additional scenes in full. If so, please do not read further or click on the following link.  Four days ago La Stampa.it uploaded an item about the additional scenes and a video of over 20 minutes showing the additional scenes in full.  After the gang go swimming in a car and come to the surface, there is a nearby dredger with a large bucket containing waste and we cut to Noodles and a tractor with a bucket containing waste behind a garbage truck in 1968. Full scenes of the exploding car, the matching number plates and Noodles meeting Eve etc.


La Scampa.it video:   http://tinyurl.com/9xywmlx


 
What's up with the awful use of music in some of those scenes? Drowns out Max's cries for Noodles after driving off the dock, and it completely ruins the mood when Noodles meets Eve and asks to call her Deborah. It makes it feel like a playful scene when really it's hopeless and sorrowful.

Also, I'm still completely not cool with meeting Eve interjecting between the rape and the train station scene. Judging from the clips, I think it's going to really ruin the flow of my favorite sequence. I'm excited for this new restoration to come out, but for the most part I think I'll be remaining partial to the 226 min. cut I'm used to.

« : November 20, 2012, 09:17:51 AM rrpower »
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« #493 : November 21, 2012, 11:46:11 AM »

It does seem a bit odd not to hear Max's voice and the accompanying sounds of the water and the dredger but there isn't any dialogue for this scene in the script.

The meeting with Eve and the departure of Deborah have gone through quite a few changes.  In the book Noodles discovers that Deborah is planning to leave for Hollywood for a small dancing part in a musical a couple of days before their date at the restaurant.

He meets her at the theater after her matinee performance at about 5:30 pm and they head back from the restaurant fairly soon afterwards as she has an evening performance at 8.00 pm at the theater.  On the way back she reveals that she has loved a peaceful conservative businessman for a good many years and she hopes to marry him and stay in Hollywood.  After attacking her in the car, Noodles goes back to his hotel room, gets drunk and the following day watches Deborah holding hands with a man and getting on a train for Hollywood.

Noodles gets drunk again, ends up at a speakeasy on 52nd street, tells a hostess that he tried to rape a girl and goes outside.  There he meets a streetwalker whom he calls Deborah and has sex with in a nearby hotel.  He doesn't meet Eve until much later when she is auditioning for a dancing part in a show at the Eden.

In the movie I think it's intended that Noodles meets Deborah at the theater after her evening performance, they go to the restaurant, spend time on the beach, drive back, he rapes her and he gets out of the car in the early morning.

It's night when he meets Eve at speakeasy on 52nd street so presumably after his date with Deborah he wanders about all day getting drunk.  They go back to his hotel room, which is the same room as Eve is murdered in at the beginning of the movie, and he wakes up at 6:00 pm the following day.  He glances at his watch and we cut to a clock showing 7:55 above Deborah's table at the railway station restaurant.

Perhaps it's a bit like Cinema Paradiso and a liking for the first version seen.  I've got mixed feelings.  Will the quality of the new scenes be 8/10 and the restored old scenes 10/10 as reported by a recent viewer, will the match cuts, links and general flow of the movie be better or worse and will these additional scenes benefit or detract from it?  I'm looking forward to seeing the new version but I can't help feeling that I won't be completely satisfied until I see the further footage mentioned by Martin Scorcese added, bringing the movie nearer to Sergio Leone's 270 minute version.

  


As for the comparisons with the book, of course many things have gone through changes, I wouldn't concern myself with the book, there's very little that was copied directly from the book and kept as is.


As for the restored scenes, I really want to withhold judgment until I see the movie, but if the image quality of the new scenes is as bad as it looks on these online clips, then there is zero chance that anyone will ever consider this new version to be the definitive version. The only way it can become THE version of the movie is if it flows seamlessly, but with the terrible image quality in these new scenes, it's really jarring and sticks out, and it'll never make anyone forget the 229MV unless/until they can fix that.

I certainly agree that I really want them to restore the remaining scenes, which would bring the movie closer to 270-280 minutes, but I am not sure what the chances of that happening are, if they already have a dvd release planned for Italy in December of this new version. What are the chances that after releasin ga  dvd with these 20 minutes added in, they'll then release another dvd with an additional 20-25 minutes added in? I know Scorcese has mentioned the existence of these additional 20-25 minutes, but if they were really closing to getting it and restoring it, there is no way they would go ahead with the release of this dvd in December; rather, they would wait till all 40-50 minutes are restored before releasing the dvd (at least that's what would make sense to me!)

So while I want to see all 40-50 minutes as badly as anyone, I think we'll have to just enjoy these new 20 minutes, and not get our hopes up about getting the additional 20-25 minutes anytime soon. Just a guess. I hope I am wrong  ;)


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« #494 : November 21, 2012, 09:37:11 PM »

Perhaps it's a bit like Cinema Paradiso and a liking for the first version seen.

The difference with Cinema Paradiso is that the long version basically adds a third chapter on to the end. This long version of OUATIA will lengthen it with different scenes scattered throughout.

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