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Author Topic: NEW DIRECTORS CUT  (Read 228146 times)
stanton
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« Reply #210 on: April 19, 2012, 01:13:38 PM »

Normally nobody uses the Pal runtimes, except if a Pal version is the subject of the discussion.
OUTA was released in Europe with the aforementioned 229 min runtime. The German Blu runs 229:19 min, the Pal DVD 219:29

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drinkanddestroy
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« Reply #211 on: April 19, 2012, 09:56:58 PM »

According to Issue 359 of Cahiers Du Cinema dated May 1984 the running time of the movie when released in Europe was 3 hours 40 (220 minutes).

From Cahiers interview with Sergio Leone in 1984, Leone discusses the 50 minutes he had to cut from the movie:

"Cahiers. Sur quoi ont porté les coupures de 50 minutes que vous avez déjà faites?"

In his book Something To Do With Death, Frayling talks about an extra 45 - 50 minutes but his sums don't quite add up.

Most of the recent press releases quote 40 minutes possibly because the writers are looking at a quoted running time of 229 minutes for the old version and 269 minutes for the fully restored version.

Soon after the agreement with Milchan to purchase the Italian rights, Andrea Leone said: "My father had made a version of four and a half hours (270 minutes), which was cut in Europe to three hours and forty (220 minutes)..."

I think the problem comes from when the movie was transferred to DVD. Owing to their using different frame rates, the NTSC version is 229 mins long and the PAL version 219 mins. Web sites such as IMDb naturally refer to the NTSC version for the running time of the movie.


When Andrea Leone says his father's version was "four and a half hours," I don't know if that  necessarily means exactly 270 minutes, or if it's a general rounded term.

Anyway, I am sure we'll find out the exact running time (no later than) when it's screened Cannes.
 I am way too excited about this release to worry about whether the exact extra time is 40, 45, or 50 minutes 

(Should I get greedy now and hope that one day they will release all 6-10 hours of footage  -- at least separately on the special features section of a dvd -- that Frayling says was shot for what Leone was then hoping would be a 2-part movie?  Wink )


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drinkanddestroy
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« Reply #212 on: April 22, 2012, 02:01:51 PM »



For a long time I've been thinking about purchasing Marcello Garofalo's C'era una volta in America. Photographic memories.  Quite an expensive book but 320 pages and some interesting photos.



I've never heard of that book, and couldn't find it on Amazon or anywhere else (I tried Googling). Do you have a link where it can be purchased?

And is it basically just pictures? (That's the only way I'll  buy it, cuz I can't read Italian).

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stanton
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« Reply #213 on: April 22, 2012, 02:09:04 PM »

Once, that runtime in Frayling's book must be an error. Inside the book (pg. 458 -460) he only talks about the 229 min version.

I have a new German book on Leone which lists a lot of runtimes from several countries. And the uncut version always runs 228 or 229 min. In Italy, France, Germany, USA. The theatrical UK version was slightly cut, but still ran 228 min.

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dave jenkins
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« Reply #214 on: April 22, 2012, 07:22:06 PM »

"No word yet on when this version will hit DVD or BluRay but we presume that's around the corner." An absolutely worthless presumption.

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« Reply #215 on: April 22, 2012, 07:25:27 PM »

The theatrical UK version was slightly cut.
No doubt because of the horse falls.

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« Reply #216 on: April 22, 2012, 07:43:25 PM »

"No word yet on when this version will hit DVD or BluRay but we presume that's around the corner." An absolutely worthless presumption.

I don't know what "around the corner" means, but I think it's safe to say that a dvd/blu-ray will be released at some point (possibly after a theatrical run?) That's the important part, but I've been dreaming of since forever.

And when the dvd is released, I hope they get Frayling for the commentary.

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« Reply #217 on: April 22, 2012, 09:38:04 PM »

My point is that we've been given zero information. There is nothing to go on.

But let's see what I can pull out of my ass anyway, OK? 2014 will be the film's 30th Anniversary. Warner's loves to bring out special anniversary editions of films on home media. They may therefore decide to schedule their next DVD/Blu-ray release of OUATIA to coincide with that anniversary. And if there are going to be repertory screenings of the film first anyway, 2014 is none too late (remember, repertory is not general release--the film, in a sense, tours, arriving in different cities on different dates, which stretches the release period out considerably longer than those on general release). Of course, the new Italian DVD/Blu-ray might come out earlier, but that may not be of use to many of us.

Fall of 2013 might be close enough to the anniversary for Warner's, though, so it's possible we'll see a deluxe packaging job (in the tradition of the Citizen Kane and Casablanca releases) in time for Christmas. No doubt the Super Deluxe edition will include a facsimile bootlegger's whiskey flask and a pair of Eve's falsies. At 100 dollars, what self-respecting Leone fan will be able to resist? The cheapies who want to wait for the stripped down packaging (at 19.99) may have to wait until sometime late in 2014.


But as I say, at this point, it's all just speculation.

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« Reply #218 on: April 23, 2012, 03:01:46 AM »

But let's see what I can pull out of my ass anyway, OK?

I hope you know what you're doing.

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« Reply #219 on: April 26, 2012, 03:29:22 PM »

 Afro

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« Reply #220 on: April 27, 2012, 01:21:04 AM »

Do we still hang Once?

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« Reply #221 on: April 27, 2012, 03:18:25 AM »

That's it, I will not worry or think about the running time until after the movie is actually screened at Cannes, and we hear about the dvd/blu-ray. We've already heard so many different things about this release, I ain't gonna worry about any one particular article, even if it is supposed to be the "official word" from Cannes. No use in worrying about something that I've heard so many different versions of, I won't know for sure till it is screened, and I have no control over. A few years ago, we would have killed to see this restoration; now, we are getting all worked up over the reported running time before we even know for sure what's happening. In one recent interview with Scorcese, he says the movie is 5 1/2 hours; in a Variety article, it says 40 minutes will be restored, and now this says 25 minutes. And that's just three articles posted on this thread in the past couple of weeks! So the bottom line is we don't know jack. Let's just take it easy till after the screening!

Remember, this restoration is in the hands of people -- including Leone's children and Martin Scorcese -- who are every bit as excited and passionate about this movie as we are, and every bit as interested in seeing Leone's vision realized in the best way possible. They are people who care about this movie in the same way that you and I do. I am sure they will do a damn good job with it.

So for now, I am just really excited about the restoration, and I'm going to chill out and not concern myself with the running time or anything else. After it screens at Cannes, I'm sure I'll enjoy reading the articles, and perhaps we'll find out the real running time. But I will withhold judgment until I see the movie myself Smiley


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« Reply #222 on: April 27, 2012, 05:15:04 AM »

 

Most reliable sources for the 1980's quote the running time of the movie when released in Europe as 3hrs 40 (220 minutes).    Undecided



Then you must have other sources than I. Most of mine say 229 min, and anyway all uncut DVD, Blu Ray, VHS, TV versions I know about run 228 or 229 min.

http://www.ofdb.de/film/1657,Es-war-einmal-in-Amerika

But I'm sure the Cannes version will be longer than 245 min. Unless the film stock is damaged.
On the other hand for unknown reasons Scorsese has already failed to recreate the theatrical version of OUTW.


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« Reply #223 on: April 27, 2012, 06:46:42 AM »


On the other hand for unknown reasons Scorsese has already failed to recreate the theatrical version of OUTW.



it's just that the final scene with the end music and the words "Once Upon a Time in the West" that were changed and the "Scorcese version" never fixed; but it's not that any of the actual movie footage from the original theatrical release is missing, no?


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« Reply #224 on: April 27, 2012, 08:53:34 AM »

My reliable sources include Cahiers Du Cinema (1984), Sergio Leone (1984), Andrea Leone (has lived with the movie for most of his life) and Frayling (some errors & misunderstandings in other parts of his book).

I don't think you have any reliable sources from the 1980s to match these.

Running times of DVDs, Blu-rays, TV & VHS versions are not relevant other than to confuse writers of articles in newspapers, magazines and web sites who incorrectly assume that the running time of a NTSC version is the same as that of the original theatrical release.

In any event the comments on the Festival's official site seem clear - an additional 25 minutes have been added to the movie bringing the running time to 245 minutes.



 I am very confused by what you mean when you say the the original theatrical release was 220 minutes. I never heard of any 220 minute version. Frayling, in the bottom paragraph of page 460 of STDWD, says the 229 minute version is what was shown at Cannes. And on p. 462, middle paragraph, he says "The film was released in Europe in a 227-minute version, approved by Leone..." (I think it possibly took out two minutes to tone down some violence). But Frayling says nothing about a 220-minute version.



So what do you mean when you say that it is incorrect to "assume that the running time of an NTSC version is the same as that of the original theatrical release"?  Can you please elaborate/explain that statement? If you believe Frayling is wrong, and the original theatrical release was 220 minutes, are you saying that 9 minutes were added to the DVD (cuz the DVD's are currently 229 minutes). IF that's the case, then if the the newly restored version has 25 extra minutes and totals 245 minutes, you're saying that it does not include the 9 minutes that were added to the DVD? Or does the newly restored version have all 229 minutes we have now plus the new footage equals 245 minutes, which would mean that there is only 16 minutes of new footage?



 I know that the comments on the Festival's official site seem clear. But we have seen so many other clear comments (eg. the Variety article said there would be 40 extra minutes). So I don't know if we can believe any of the reported running times with certainty, until after the movie is screened.

--------------------------------------------------------------

P.S.  what do you mean when you say "some errors and misunderstandings in other parts of" Frayling's book? Are you referring to the running time of OUATIA, or to other, unrelated material in his book?


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