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drinkanddestroy
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« #285 : May 07, 2012, 07:10:20 AM »

There is a fairly obvious not yet discussed scenario which makes sense of most of the conflicting information.   Regrettably though this does mean that unless more material is added, the running time of the new "fully restored" NTSC DVD and Blu-ray will be 245 minutes.

so all this excitement for just 16 extra minutes?

That would be about this biggest downer I could ever imagine   :'(


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« #286 : May 07, 2012, 08:34:02 AM »

Going from 50 to 16minutes is a huge downer. But don't forget the main point: 16 unreleased minutes shot by Leone/delli colli would still be the greatest news of the year :)



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« #287 : May 07, 2012, 10:37:28 AM »

So you mean the very worst case scenario is that we could only get 25 minutes of unreleased scenes that does not works very well with the version we know? I'll still buy the BD and dance naked in the streets if that's what happens (as long as the new scenes are better than the grotto scene).



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« #288 : May 07, 2012, 10:53:17 AM »

Once - my comments had not a whit to do with running times. My only concern is whether the new footage, however much there is, had already been edited. Leone's comment explicitly states it never was.

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« : May 07, 2012, 11:02:43 AM MatViola »
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« #289 : May 07, 2012, 12:09:24 PM »

true, if we'd been told a few years ago that we'd get an extra 16 minutes, we'd say it was the best news of the year. But after expecting 45-50 minutes, 16 minutes is a downer. o well, we'll have to wait and see.


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« #290 : May 07, 2012, 12:24:44 PM »

I don't regard it as simply 16 minutes being added.

Of all the people in the world Leone should know best the running of time of his original version in 1984.  He and many others with first hand knowledge said his original version was 3hrs 40 (220 minutes).

Cahiers said that after Cannes, the movie went round theaters in France then went to Italy. According to Oreste De Fornari and Frayling the running time of the theatrical version in Italy was 218 minutes. At some stage Leone came to an impasse with the Ladd group of companies and realised that his version would never be seen by audiences in America. Between Italy and the U.K. approximately 9 minutes were added to the version shown in theaters.



Once, you may want to kill me, but despite all what Leone had said about the film's runtime, and despite all that sources which claim a 218 -220 min runtime, I'm still 99 % sure that there was never another uncut version than the 229 min version we all know.

If such a shorter version had existed and was then extended to a 229 min runtime, this would have been documented in all the books written by about Leone.

And it would be totally absurd now to delete these 9 min again. Why should they do such a stupidity?

Most of my sources only claim the 229 min version, cause there wasn't another one.

Sure one should think that the director should know it best, but such things happen, and maybe it was Leone himself who got confused himself about the various runtimes for which the film was conceived, and was himself the only original source for all these mistakes.

There is lot of doubtless evidence for the existence of the 229 min version, but none for the shorter version.


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« #291 : May 07, 2012, 05:35:49 PM »

either way, I am sure that whatever extra material we get with the new release, it will be in addition to the 229 minutes we currently have; they will not be removing those 9 minutes under any circumstances. I'd be willing to bet any amount of money on that at 10-1 odds


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« #292 : May 07, 2012, 07:56:38 PM »

either way, I am sure that whatever extra material we get with the new release, it will be in addition to the 229 minutes we currently have; they will not be removing those 9 minutes under any circumstances. I'd be willing to bet any amount of money on that at 10-1 odds

The only way that removing 9 minutes would make sense is if conflicts with some of the newly restored material.  :'(


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« #293 : May 15, 2012, 10:11:03 AM »

Link from The Independent with a little information on added scenes.


http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/martin-scorsese-breathes-new-life-into-gangster-classic-once-upon-a-time-in-america-7746578.html


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« #294 : May 15, 2012, 10:59:23 AM »

I'm excited to see McGovern perform Cleopatra. Should be nice seeing Louis Fletcher in there too, not sure how much that will add to the movie though. Pretty disappointing that it's still not Leone's preferred version though.

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« #295 : May 15, 2012, 02:18:27 PM »

this article also says 25 extra minutes for a total of 245 minutes.... who knows wtf the truth is....


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« #296 : May 15, 2012, 05:13:27 PM »

 ::)

245: http://www.festival-cannes.com/en/festival/CannesClassics.html
253: http://www.festival-cannes.com/en/archives/ficheFilm/id/11255488/year/2012.html


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« #297 : May 15, 2012, 06:59:38 PM »

I really want to withhold judgment until I see the movie.

With that said, it seems as if they may not restore all the scenes that Leone had to cut to get down to 229 minutes (Frayling lists those scenes on p. 458 of STDWD).

I really hope that they restore the scenes with Darlanne Fleugel as Eve. I think those are really important. Noodles is mourning losing Deborah, and the next thing you know he is on the beach with Eve, and Noodles and Max are talking business in front of her. It is very jarring to see that without their meeting and relationship first being introduced. (Yes, it is slightly less jarring cuz we already saw Eve in the opening scene, and in the speakeasy on the final night. But it is weird nonethless).
Nice to hear that the scenes with Louise Fletcher at the cemetery -- which should explaining more about the mausoleum and recording of Cockeye's Song.


And btw, before we get too worried about this not being Leone's preferred version, let's remember that Frayling gets his math a bit muddled: First he says that that Leone preferred a cut between 4:10--4:25, and then he says that Leone had to cut 45-50 minutes of significant material from his preferred cut. Well, 45-50 minutes added to 3:49 = between 4:34 -- 4:39 minutes, not 4:10--4:25 . I don't know which of the two statements by Frayling (which occur in the same paragraph on p. 458 of STDWD ) are accurate. However, if the statement that Leone's preferred cut was 4:10--4:25 is the one that is accurate, then we may indeed be getting something very close to what Leone ideally wanted: 25 restored minutes added to 3:49 = a new version of 4:14.


I'd add that on that page, Frayling lists 8 different "items" that were cut, which means a total of much more than 8 scenes (eg. McGovern's performances are listed as one item, even though it is two different performances, one from 1933 and one from 1968). I listed those cut items at this post http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=1302.msg146469#msg146469

Based on the pace of the movie and Leone's style of filmmaking, I'd have to guess that there is no way that all the material that Frayling lists will be able to be restored in only 25 minutes.
But I hope that Scorcese and the Leone children restore the important scenes

« : May 15, 2012, 09:25:42 PM drinkanddestroy »

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« #298 : May 16, 2012, 04:04:32 AM »

This is translated from this site... (FIXED link)

Quote
Six blocks of scenes - belonging to different eras in which the film is set - reintroduced in the new version which now reaches the last 4 hours and 19 minutes:

1) dialogue between Noodles, played by Robert De Niro, and director of the cemetery, played by Louise Fletcher (scene set in 1968);

2) changing the sequence in which the car with Noodles and Max (played by James Woods) sinks and anxiety of friends who do not see resurface Noodles (1933);

3) the film producer Arnon Milchan in the role of chauffeur talks with Noodles (1933);

4) love scene (fee) between Noodles and Eve, played by Darlenne Fluegel (1933);

5) Deborah, played by Elizabeth McGovern, plays Cleopatra in Shakespeare's theater (1968);

6) Senator Bailey (New Identity Max), played by Woods, has an interview in his private study with the leading trade unionist in the past of a "rescue" by the banda of Noodles and Max (1968).

« : May 16, 2012, 06:42:22 AM Garry Cowell »
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« #299 : May 16, 2012, 06:35:41 AM »

Thanks for that.

FYI that link you posted to the site doesn't work


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