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Author Topic: NEW DIRECTORS CUT  (Read 227462 times)
stanton
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« Reply #450 on: July 03, 2012, 12:59:13 PM »

Jimmy does not vanish in the 229MV! we see himon the tv in Fat Moe's during the newscast after Bailey's car was blown up. so we see  that he is still around and involved with the union-political shit in 1968.




Yes, but that's not enough. in the 229 min version his role is either too big or too small.

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drinkanddestroy
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« Reply #451 on: July 03, 2012, 01:06:46 PM »

Yes, but that's not enough. in the 229 min version his role is either too big or too small.

we see that he is still around, that his original idealism for workers' rights has become the familiarly corrupt union-politics-mobster story, and that he is obviously involved with the Bailey scandal.

There are lots of narrative stuff that IMO is missing in the 229MV, but Jimmy is not one of them

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« Reply #452 on: July 03, 2012, 01:43:25 PM »

(To be sure, the question of why he isn't running away did not occur to me previously).
Exactly. We don't need explanations for things we never wondered about.

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« Reply #453 on: July 03, 2012, 01:50:14 PM »

I am not saying this is an essential scene, but I don't think it's useless or hurts the movie in any way.
You are going to follow one scene of two guys talking in a room together with ANOTHER scene of two guys talking in a room together--and it's the same room! Man, am I glad that you aren't directing movies.

Any editor would tell you that one of those scenes has to go. It's easy to choose in this case--cut the one that doesn't play.

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« Reply #454 on: July 03, 2012, 02:25:51 PM »

You are going to follow one scene of two guys talking in a room together with ANOTHER scene of two guys talking in a room together--and it's the same room!

Yeah, that's never happened before in a movie Roll Eyes

I do think that the scene raises a different serious problem, which I described in the earlier post: Bailey's been planning his death for a while now; so there's no reason that Jimmy informing him that he's gotta go should be any revelation to him. He's obviously made the decision to kill himself, already, why NOW does he begin this argument with Jimmy, telling him that he brought him to his position, etc.

There are a couple of nice parallels (idk if that's the right word) though, between the two scenes: In the scene with Jimmy, Bailey turns on his 4 video screens; in the scene with Noodles, he shuts them off (symbolic I guess for the fact that he's done for). And while Jimmy walks out the main door of the study, Noodles in contrast walks out the side door, as always.


Furthermore, I was never really sure what the purpose was of showing Bailey's son in the movie -- except to tip off Noodles (and the audience, in case we didn't realize it yet) as to the identity of Bailey. Someone here once said that the purpose is to show Max "looking at" himself, which is one of the themes of the movie, people making sense of their past and Time. Also, showing his son leaving with his friends to the party  provides some justification for the partiers in the car at the end of the movie (which is meant to be a surreal scene anyway, and the summation of the themes about dreams, time, and cinema). But I guess that after seeing this scene, perhaps there is one other explanation: showing the son gives it a greater effect when Jimmy threatens his life, as opposed to if he had threatened some anonymous, faceless person.


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stanton
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« Reply #455 on: July 03, 2012, 03:06:29 PM »

You are going to follow one scene of two guys talking in a room together with ANOTHER scene of two guys talking in a room together--and it's the same room! Man, am I glad that you aren't directing movies.

Any editor would tell you that one of those scenes has to go. It's easy to choose in this case--cut the one that doesn't play.

I have to see the actual scene and how it works in the film's context before I can judge it. But so far it seems to me the only new scene which could improve the film.

Maybe the Eve scene, but not for Eve, only for Noodles.

Otherwise, frankly said, I would prefer a shorter, and not a longer version of OuTA.


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« Reply #456 on: July 03, 2012, 03:49:35 PM »

I have to see the actual scene and how it works in the film's context before I can judge it. But so far it seems to me the only new scene which could improve the film.

Maybe the Eve scene, but not for Eve, only for Noodles.

Otherwise, frankly said, I would prefer a shorter, and not a longer version of OuTA.



as far as the Eve scenes go, they are vitally important, I don't know what you mean by "not for Eve, only for Noodles." Do you mean that it's important to show that he's recovered from his obsession with Deborah?

Being a gangster with lots of cash, Noodles can always pick up a dame. But the fact that he and Max are discussing what would be the greatest heist in the history of the world in front of her on the beach, and that she is very distraught on that fateful night when Noodles informs her he won't be coming home for a while, shows that there is a very close relationship between them. There is no way that the movie can get away with just showing her on the beach. (even though we were introduced to her in the opening scenes, those occur after the beach scenes. We have to be introduced to her).

I still haven't seen the scenes with Eve (except for brief moments in a montage), but my understanding is that the scenes that are restored show Noodles walking into a club, miserable after his night with Deborah; Eve is a dancer in the club and she walks over to Noodles; he is attracted to her tits and accepts her offer, on condition that he can call her "Deborah." And he pulls out a thousand dollar bill and gives it to her without looking at it; she says "I've done more for less." He asks her how big the bill was, she lies and says it was a hundred dollar bill. They go to the hotel room where he lives (probably the same room where Eve is killed in the opening scene of the movie), where he is all miserable over Deborah,  asking Even "Do you love me Deborah,"  and he falls asleep before they even do anything; Eve doesn't even take her clothes off. The next morning Noodles wakes up and sees a note from Eve, signed "Deborah." Then comes the scene where he goes to see Deborah at the train station as she is heading to Hollywood....


But there are actually more scenes with Eve that were cut but not restored: At this point, Eve was just supposed to be a one-night stand and that's it. But in scenes that have still not been restored, he meets her again by chance, and that is when they fall in love: Here is how that goes:

when Noodles leaves Jimmy's hospital room, he gets into the elevator, and his gaze falls on a pair of tits.... they are Eve's tits; he says hello to her, and that he'd recognize those tits anywhere; I think she was visiting the hospital for some medical tests. She asks him if he's been cured of his "Deborah-itis," he says yes! Then she admits to him that he'd given her a thousand dollar bill. They make up to meet again, and then Noodles gets out of the elevator, where we have that scene where Max catches up to him and says he wants to go with him to Florida. Then, we have another scene with Noodles and Eve at his hotel room. Noodles has been enchanted with her abundant cleavage. So when they meet in his hotel, he has bought her a gift of some very fancy, large bras. Eve opens her top, and reveals herself..... to be wearing falsies! He'd been crazy about her cleavage, but now realizes she's actually flat!

Suddenly, they hear someone at the door. Noodles pulls his gun out, the door opens, and in walk... Max and Carol, to pick them up to go to Florida!

--------


I am pleased that the scenes where Noodles first meets Eve were restored, but I wish that eventually, they restore all the scenes with Eve (along with the other 20-25 minutes that still haven't been restored). Scorcese mentioned in an interview that there are still these 20-25 minutes that have not yet been restored, and implied that they may eventually be, if they are able to find it or something like that (this interview with Scorcese was transcribed earlier in this thread by Mat Viola).



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Derbent 5000
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« Reply #457 on: July 03, 2012, 09:34:53 PM »

video provided by Gucci and the Film Foundation narated by Martin Scorsese

http://www.gucci.com/us/worldofgucci/articles/once-upon-a-time-in-america-gucci-restoration

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chris
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« Reply #458 on: July 04, 2012, 02:09:14 AM »

video provided by Gucci and the Film Foundation narated by Martin Scorsese

http://www.gucci.com/us/worldofgucci/articles/once-upon-a-time-in-america-gucci-restoration
Thanks for the link Derbent 5000.  Hopefully all who are interested will be able to see the extended version in theaters or on disc soon.


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chris
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« Reply #459 on: July 04, 2012, 02:55:06 AM »

The additional scenes between Noodles and Eve are fun scenes.  They show a different side to Noodles.  Some viewers may come away from the movie, thinking that Noodles is a loser and feeling sorry for him.  Including these scenes may partly address this and restore the balance between melancholy and the fun times these gangsters undoubtedly had.

The video clips look low quality and it'll be interesting to see just how well the additional scenes have been incorporated into the movie when the extended version airs in theaters or on disc.  There are several on-line reviews from people who saw the new version at Cannes and they seem positive.  One reviewer commented that the additional scenes had slightly more grain but then went on to say that people who have seen the movie several times will notice the new scenes simply because the old version is firmly entrenched in their memory.  It may take a while to get used to the new version.

At the Cineteca di Bologna web site, there are 3 images which are described as captures from frames from the restored scenes. These should represent more accurately the look of the finished movie.

Frame capture from scene 107 Noodles and the chauffeur:



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« Reply #460 on: July 05, 2012, 11:04:20 AM »

Bailey wants to be killed by Noodles at the end.  He knows he has to die so he would rather have Noodles do it.  First, he has guilt over how he treated Noodles and secondly, he figures Noodles would want to do it as revenge.  We find out that Noodles doesn't want to kill Bailey, (and Noodles never calls him Max, and says that he had a friend once, as if "Max", his friend died many years ago. )

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Derbent 5000
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« Reply #461 on: July 05, 2012, 11:53:57 AM »

added scenes













































According to the issue 359 Cahiers Du Cinema

Sergi Leone in interview there is another 50 minutes of scenes, Sergio Leone meant that 220 min PAL European runntime 3 hrs 40 plus 50 mins will be 270 mins or 220 mins plus 45 will be 265 mins that makes sense

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MatViola
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« Reply #462 on: August 03, 2012, 01:05:26 PM »

Oooops...needs more work:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2012/aug/03/sergio-leone-once-upon-time-america?newsfeed=true

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drinkanddestroy
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« Reply #463 on: August 03, 2012, 01:38:55 PM »


while I am of course waiting anxiously to be able to see the restored film, I am glad to hear that they are trying to get it right. I guess that they rushed it to make it in time for Cannes, and now figure they want to get it as best as can be for the theatrical and dvd release. Based on the videos we've seen so far, the quality of the restored scenes is markedly worse than that of the rest of the film; I hope that this new work will rectify that, as much as possible.

Also, as we've discussed there are an additional 20-25 minutes that Leone wanted in the film that were not included in the Cannes release and which Scorcese speculated may eventually be restored (I am not sure exactly why they didn't do it for the Cannes release, whether they couldn't find negatives in decent shape or whatever?) Perhaps it's wishful thinking, but I am hoping that this re-restoration will include more footage.

I am glad that this restoration is in good hands, being done by people like the Leone children and Scorcese, who really care about this movie. So, as difficult as the wait is, my opinion is, take the time to get it right, and when it ultimately is released, hopefully we'll be able to say, after nearly 3 decades, that we FINALLY have the REAL version of the film  Smiley



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chris
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« Reply #464 on: August 04, 2012, 01:52:47 AM »


Thanks for the link MatViola.

In a way this is good news. It seems to confirm that further restoration will be completed in the autumn and the new version will be back on the film festival circuit during the winter of this year or spring of 2013.  Sounds good to me.  Afro

TV5monde also did an interview with James Woods recently (in broken French):

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xsarld_james-woods-cannes-2012-mes-souvenirs-incroyables-avec-de-niro-et-leone_news
 
(Leone wanted teardrops during the watch scene)

 

« Last Edit: August 04, 2012, 02:44:24 AM by chris » Logged
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