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Author Topic: NEW DIRECTORS CUT  (Read 221553 times)
drinkanddestroy
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« Reply #510 on: November 21, 2012, 11:46:11 AM »

It does seem a bit odd not to hear Max's voice and the accompanying sounds of the water and the dredger but there isn't any dialogue for this scene in the script.

The meeting with Eve and the departure of Deborah have gone through quite a few changes.  In the book Noodles discovers that Deborah is planning to leave for Hollywood for a small dancing part in a musical a couple of days before their date at the restaurant.

He meets her at the theater after her matinee performance at about 5:30 pm and they head back from the restaurant fairly soon afterwards as she has an evening performance at 8.00 pm at the theater.  On the way back she reveals that she has loved a peaceful conservative businessman for a good many years and she hopes to marry him and stay in Hollywood.  After attacking her in the car, Noodles goes back to his hotel room, gets drunk and the following day watches Deborah holding hands with a man and getting on a train for Hollywood.

Noodles gets drunk again, ends up at a speakeasy on 52nd street, tells a hostess that he tried to rape a girl and goes outside.  There he meets a streetwalker whom he calls Deborah and has sex with in a nearby hotel.  He doesn't meet Eve until much later when she is auditioning for a dancing part in a show at the Eden.

In the movie I think it's intended that Noodles meets Deborah at the theater after her evening performance, they go to the restaurant, spend time on the beach, drive back, he rapes her and he gets out of the car in the early morning.

It's night when he meets Eve at speakeasy on 52nd street so presumably after his date with Deborah he wanders about all day getting drunk.  They go back to his hotel room, which is the same room as Eve is murdered in at the beginning of the movie, and he wakes up at 6:00 pm the following day.  He glances at his watch and we cut to a clock showing 7:55 above Deborah's table at the railway station restaurant.

Perhaps it's a bit like Cinema Paradiso and a liking for the first version seen.  I've got mixed feelings.  Will the quality of the new scenes be 8/10 and the restored old scenes 10/10 as reported by a recent viewer, will the match cuts, links and general flow of the movie be better or worse and will these additional scenes benefit or detract from it?  I'm looking forward to seeing the new version but I can't help feeling that I won't be completely satisfied until I see the further footage mentioned by Martin Scorcese added, bringing the movie nearer to Sergio Leone's 270 minute version.

  


As for the comparisons with the book, of course many things have gone through changes, I wouldn't concern myself with the book, there's very little that was copied directly from the book and kept as is.


As for the restored scenes, I really want to withhold judgment until I see the movie, but if the image quality of the new scenes is as bad as it looks on these online clips, then there is zero chance that anyone will ever consider this new version to be the definitive version. The only way it can become THE version of the movie is if it flows seamlessly, but with the terrible image quality in these new scenes, it's really jarring and sticks out, and it'll never make anyone forget the 229MV unless/until they can fix that.

I certainly agree that I really want them to restore the remaining scenes, which would bring the movie closer to 270-280 minutes, but I am not sure what the chances of that happening are, if they already have a dvd release planned for Italy in December of this new version. What are the chances that after releasin ga  dvd with these 20 minutes added in, they'll then release another dvd with an additional 20-25 minutes added in? I know Scorcese has mentioned the existence of these additional 20-25 minutes, but if they were really closing to getting it and restoring it, there is no way they would go ahead with the release of this dvd in December; rather, they would wait till all 40-50 minutes are restored before releasing the dvd (at least that's what would make sense to me!)

So while I want to see all 40-50 minutes as badly as anyone, I think we'll have to just enjoy these new 20 minutes, and not get our hopes up about getting the additional 20-25 minutes anytime soon. Just a guess. I hope I am wrong  Wink

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« Reply #511 on: November 21, 2012, 09:37:11 PM »

Perhaps it's a bit like Cinema Paradiso and a liking for the first version seen.

The difference with Cinema Paradiso is that the long version basically adds a third chapter on to the end. This long version of OUATIA will lengthen it with different scenes scattered throughout.

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« Reply #512 on: December 01, 2012, 03:59:01 AM »

There's a few discussions going on at the forums at Blu-ray.com, avmagazine.it and Dvdweb.it  Many are concerned at the high compression rate on the BD.

Dvdweb.it have provided some caps of the new version at 1920 x 1080, front and back cover and bitrate details.

TheNextOne (at dvdweb.it) is particulary critical but I'm looking forward to receiving my copy next month, so that I can judge for myself:

Dvdweb.it news - Nov 30 2012

It's reported that the new BD is Region B Locked and the duration of the movie is 246 mins, so PAL/50HZ encoding may be an issue.


 

« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 02:05:32 AM by chris » Logged
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« Reply #513 on: December 01, 2012, 08:02:05 AM »

Someone on the Blu-ray forum just posted the following:

Quote
It has already been reported that this new edition has a lot of compression problems (go figure, one disc only for a 4h20m movie), and you may be interested to learn that the PR guy of 'Andrea Leone Productions' (Andrea is one of Sergio's sons) is already apologising for that, whilst saying they will try and distribute a better version someday in the future.

It's reported that the new BD is Region B Locked and the duration of the movie is 246 mins, so PAL/50HZ encoding may be an issue.

I'm not too well-informed on these things, but I thought 50/60Hz was only an issue with 1080i content and not 1080p?

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« Reply #514 on: December 02, 2012, 02:25:59 AM »

Someone on the Blu-ray forum just posted the following:

It has already been reported that this new edition has a lot of compression problems (go figure, one disc only for a 4h20m movie), and you may be interested to learn that the PR guy of 'Andrea Leone Productions' (Andrea is one of Sergio's sons) is already apologising for that, whilst saying they will try and distribute a better version someday in the future.

Quote from: chris on Yesterday at 02:59:01 AM
It's reported that the new BD is Region B Locked and the duration of the movie is 246 mins, so PAL/50HZ encoding may be an issue.

I'm not too well-informed on these things, but I thought 50/60Hz was only an issue with 1080i content and not 1080p?

I'm not well-informed on these things either but if the 246 mins duration is correct, it's a possible explanation.  On an earlier news item at Dvdweb.it  there's a sticker saying the disc contains an extra 26 minutes:

Dvdweb.it News - Nov 29 2012

I've seen a few email responses from the guy at Andrea Leone Films and in one he was getting frustrated at the number of emails he was receiving and saying he couldn't answer them all.  He was critical of those who were mailing him to complain about compression problems when none of them had seen the finished product.

There was a previous statement that at a future date there will be a further release. I can't remember the exact wording but I think it was hoped that this release would include both versions of the movie and possibly some extras.
 
 
 

« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 02:28:07 AM by chris » Logged
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« Reply #515 on: December 02, 2012, 02:43:41 AM »


There was a previous statement that at a future date there will be a further release. I can't remember the exact wording but I think it was hoped that this release would include both versions of the movie and possibly some extras.
 
 

Should I get greedy and hope that the future release will contain the additional 20-25 minutes that was not restored at Cannes, but which was part of Leone's desired version (and which Scorcese referred to in at least one interview)?

For now, I guess I'll just hope that we in American can get to see the Cannes version sometime in the not too distant future  Angry

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« Reply #516 on: December 03, 2012, 06:07:47 PM »



I can't believe this has been classified as "Film per tutti" (film for everyone) on the back Shocked It's a little violent for that isn't it Huh

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« Reply #517 on: December 06, 2012, 01:34:48 PM »

I've just received the new extended version and have viewed it alongside WB's original 229 min Blu-ray.   Sad

 

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« Reply #518 on: December 06, 2012, 03:36:11 PM »

I've just received the new extended version and have viewed it alongside WB's original 229 min Blu-ray.   Sad

 

did you get the new version on blu ray or dvd?


So the new scenes are of noticeably poorer quality than the rest of the movie? And what about the original 229 minutes -- do those look better/same/worse than on WB's blu ray?

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« Reply #519 on: December 07, 2012, 04:27:44 PM »

Deal killer.

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« Reply #520 on: December 09, 2012, 05:08:47 AM »



These were my thoughts when I first viewed both BDs side by side:

The picture quality of the new scenes is poor and they look similar to those on YouTube.  Surprisingly the picture quality of the other scenes is not as good as that in the original BD.  The brightness has been turned up, there's a lack of contrast, poor blacks, color tinge and pixellation and no meaningful detail in the shadows.  The movie looks flat to me and I'm not sure the defects are just down to compression.

The only positive thing I can say about it is that it's good to have a legal copy of the new scenes and see how they integrate into the rest of the movie. If the other 20 or so minutes mentioned by Martin Scorcese are ever released, I will still purchase a copy no matter how low the quality is.

  

Thanks for the info, chris.

This is very disappointing.

Previously, there was some discussion about how supposedly the studio that handled the restoration of the new scenes also did a restoration of the original 229 minutes, that it would be worthwhile to see just for that, etc.

Well now it's obvious that's a bunch of bullshit.

Of course, being a huge fan of Leone and OUATIA, I will still buy this blu ray disc (if/when it ever makes its way to America), and if the additional 20-25 minutes are released, then yeah, I'll buy that too. But this really fucking sucks. Very disappointing after having waited all this time.

I am still happy they did the restoration. Even if I won't be watching the new scenes all that often, I guess it'd good to know how those holes in the story are (supposed to be) filled in. (Especially the explanation of how Noodles met Eve, rather than having her just show up on the beach while Noodles and Max are discussing business).

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« Reply #521 on: December 09, 2012, 06:23:19 AM »

Several people who have seen the new BD are saying it's not that bad so I had another look using different TVs and Blu-ray players.

On some TVs it looks quite good and there is better definition in some of the scenes. You can now clearly read the sign above the gates of the Boys Reformatory to which Noodles is taken.

The images can look grainy which some are saying is compression although this can be eliminated, if needed, by altering the TV settings.  I don't regret my purchase in the slightest and hopefully, if new versions are released, some of the criticisms such as compression will be addressed.

It's now available on Amazon.co.uk as well as Amazon.it and whilst the disc and packaging don't mention region locking, I don't know anyone who has yet tried to play the disc in a U.S. Blu-ray player.

 

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« Reply #522 on: December 09, 2012, 07:08:53 AM »

Several people who have seen the new BD are saying it's not that bad so I had another look using different TVs and Blu-ray players.

On some TVs it looks quite good and there is better definition in some of the scenes. You can now clearly read the sign above the gates of the Boys Reformatory to which Noodles is taken.

The images can look grainy which some are saying is compression although this can be eliminated, if needed, by altering the TV settings.  I don't regret my purchase in the slightest and hopefully, if new versions are released, some of the criticisms such as compression will be addressed.

It's now available on Amazon.co.uk as well as Amazon.it and whilst the disc and packaging don't mention region locking, I don't know anyone who has yet tried to play the disc in a U.S. Blu-ray player.

 




but don't blu ray discs have so much available memory (25GB for single layer, 50GB for a dual layer), that space/compression never be an issue, even with a movie that's approximately 250 minutes long? ie. if a blu ray disc has poor picture quality, that just means that whoever is handling the technical shit did a bad job with it, and not that the poor quality is due to compression cuz of lack of space or whatever (that's why movies on br are always only a single disc, no double disc is ever necessary, since each disc has so much memory).

I mean, if the issue really is the space/compression, couldn't they just put it on 2 discs? would that solve the problem? I don't know shit about technical stuff, but is this just plain and simple a bad motherfucking job by the Cinematagrophique Bologna or whatever the fuck is the name of the restoration company that was supposed to be the savior of OUATIA? (How about we star some petition for Criterion to get on the case -- aren't they known for doing the best restorations?)


Finally, just wondering how the sound is on the new br disc?

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« Reply #523 on: December 09, 2012, 07:14:38 AM »

There were reports in August that the film had been pulled from circulation pending further restoration work. Was this additional restoration completed, ya know, before they released this Blu-Ray?

Mat

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« Reply #524 on: December 09, 2012, 10:46:13 AM »

but don't blu ray discs have so much available memory (25GB for single layer, 50GB for a dual layer), that space/compression never be an issue, even with a movie that's approximately 250 minutes long? ie. if a blu ray disc has poor picture quality, that just means that whoever is handling the technical shit did a bad job with it, and not that the poor quality is due to compression cuz of lack of space or whatever (that's why movies on br are always only a single disc, no double disc is ever necessary, since each disc has so much memory).

I mean, if the issue really is the space/compression, couldn't they just put it on 2 discs? would that solve the problem? I don't know shit about technical stuff, but is this just plain and simple a bad motherfucking job by the Cinematagrophique Bologna or whatever the fuck is the name of the restoration company that was supposed to be the savior of OUATIA? (How about we star some petition for Criterion to get on the case -- aren't they known for doing the best restorations?)

Finally, just wondering how the sound is on the new br disc?

The BDs used are mostly 50GB and, regarding compression, it's reported that the bitrate of the new BD is 17 Mbps.  This compares with 14.96 Mbps for the 229 min version.  

Ben-Hur, for example, has a running time of 220 mins (3hours 40 min). It's split over 2 BDs (1 50GB BD and 1 25GB BD) and has a bitrate of 27.9 Mbps.

When the release of the new Blu-ray was announced in October 2012, many people wrote to Andrea Leone Films to complain that a 250 min movie could not be put on one BD without severe compression problems.  

Gustavo van Peteghem of Andrea Leone Films replied (rough translation):

"...The decision made by Warner Home Video to produce it on one disk only was the result of technical calculations and we were told that the space of a Blu-ray was enough to hold the entire film to a minimum compression..."

and

"...I can tell you that your comments will not be in vain and we will take note and take appropriate action consistent with the logic of distribution and market with regard to the timing..."

I take this as meaning that it was too late to do anything about the BD which was recently released but hopefully they will do something about it by the time the box set mentioned by Sky.it in October 2012 comes out.

Audio details are:

- Italian PCM Mono (first original dub)
- Italian DTS-Hd MA (first original dub)
- English DTS-Hd MA 5.1

Italian and English subtitles available

There are no extras

There were reports in August that the film had been pulled from circulation pending further restoration work. Was this additional restoration completed, ya know, before they released this Blu-Ray?

Mat

I thought the restoration work was concerned mostly with the Italian audio.  I've certainly not noticed any problems with the English audio.  The new scenes look exactly the same as the YouTube videos.

  

« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 10:51:30 AM by chris » Logged
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