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chris
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« #555 : December 19, 2012, 07:09:13 AM »

Some reviewers are saying that it looks better on Plasma TVs.

No doubt. But then, everything does.

It's a clever quip but some will say completely the opposite.  Their argument would be that matte screens and LCDs/LEDs may reproduce what's on the disc more faithfully and precisely.

I did some full size captures direct from the BD to see if they were any different then realized I was looking at them on my PC which has an LCD screen.  :-[

Most of my friends have moved to Glossy LED TVs so I'll try the BD on one of those.

   

« : December 19, 2012, 08:57:38 AM chris »
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« #556 : December 19, 2012, 01:00:24 PM »

It's a clever quip but some will say completely the opposite.  Their argument would be that matte screens and LCDs/LEDs may reproduce what's on the disc more faithfully and precisely.
   
What's on the discs are "1"s and "0"s. The only question of merit is whether that data, when manipulated for display, resembles "film" (or the original theatrical presentation). Plasma always seems more film-like to me. Others either disagree or don't really care if things resemble film (they may in fact prefer a more"digitized" video look). Others apparently also believe that there are good looking women in England. De gustibus non est disputandum.



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« #557 : December 19, 2012, 02:01:57 PM »

you know chris, after your previous post, I actually typed "remember, dj's opinion is always fact; no one other than him knows shit," but then decided not to post it, cuz doing so would be utterly redundant.


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« #558 : December 19, 2012, 03:24:59 PM »

Can anybody confirm whether that new blu ray disc is indeed region-free, despite officially being listed as region-B? I would buy it on Amazon if I knew that it would play in my region A blu ray player


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« #559 : December 20, 2012, 01:52:28 AM »

Plasma versus LCD/LED

Before I bought me a Plasma I asked several people who are interested in this technical stuff much more than I am about the better technology, I even made a poll in a German forum. Result was that nearly everybody said that Plasma for several reasons reproduces a better, a more naturalistic picture.

Only one dealer opted for LCD. But when he asked me which TV in his shop was the best looking imo, the one which I chose was the only Plasma he had on sale. From that point on I was damn sure what to buy.


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« #560 : December 20, 2012, 04:24:53 AM »

What's on the discs are "1"s and "0"s. The only question of merit is whether that data, when manipulated for display, resembles "film" (or the original theatrical presentation). Plasma always seems more film-like to me. Others either disagree or don't really care if things resemble film (they may in fact prefer a more "digitized" video look).

Thanks for the info dj.

I've never owned a Plasma TV, my friends don't like them owing to reliability problems, Sony stopped making them several years ago and I wonder whether really a TV can be smart enough to differentiate between good data and bad data.  For me it doesn't seem prudent to buy a TV because it obscures parts of an image and technology seems to be going in a different direction.

Having said that you certainly get a lot of TV for your money with Plasma TVs and it's claimed that they are better at coping with fast action. I'll certainly be looking at both Plasmas and LEDs when I next purchase a TV and I'm tempted to try something different.

 

« : December 20, 2012, 04:26:42 AM chris »
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« #561 : December 20, 2012, 08:48:44 AM »

I've never owned a Plasma TV, my friends don't like them owing to reliability problems, Sony stopped making them several years ago and I wonder whether really a TV can be smart enough to differentiate between good data and bad data.  For me it doesn't seem prudent to buy a TV because it obscures parts of an image and technology seems to be going in a different direction.
I'm not sure what reliability problems your friends are referring to. There used to be a problem with "burn-in", but my understanding is that the technology evolved and did away with the problem. Another issue was supposed to be that plasma isn't supposed to last as long as the other options (LCD/LED), but that might not even be true anymore either. Anyway, until we've actually run the different screens in real conditions through a number of years, we won't really know. If your ONLY concern is longevity, then probably an LED is the way to go. I'm willing to chance having a screen with a shorter lifetime if it delivers the kind of image I enjoy most. I've had my plasma more than 3 years now and it's never given me a lick of trouble and it still looks great. I'll let you know, though, if it suddenly craps out.



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« #562 : December 20, 2012, 04:31:02 PM »

Plasma TVs .... it's claimed that they are better at coping with fast action. 

Like the incessant telephone ringing near the beginning of Once Upon a Time in America ????

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« #563 : December 21, 2012, 02:41:18 AM »

I'm not sure what reliability problems your friends are referring to. There used to be a problem with "burn-in", but my understanding is that the technology evolved and did away with the problem. Another issue was supposed to be that plasma isn't supposed to last as long as the other options (LCD/LED), but that might not even be true anymore either. Anyway, until we've actually run the different screens in real conditions through a number of years, we won't really know. If your ONLY concern is longevity, then probably an LED is the way to go. I'm willing to chance having a screen with a shorter lifetime if it delivers the kind of image I enjoy most. I've had my plasma more than 3 years now and it's never given me a lick of trouble and it still looks great. I'll let you know, though, if it suddenly craps out.

Thanks for the additional info dj.  I'll certainly include plasmas when I next look for a new TV.

 

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« #564 : December 21, 2012, 05:34:26 AM »

Thanks for the additional info dj.  I'll certainly include plasmas when I next look for a new TV.

 

just one article I read about plasma vs. LCD vs. LED
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2387377,00.asp

I am sure there are many other articles and many other opinions.

Note that plasma may cost 3 times as much on your electricity bill as LED


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« #565 : December 21, 2012, 10:55:25 AM »

Note that plasma may cost 3 times as much on your electricity bill as LED
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« #566 : December 21, 2012, 11:07:33 AM »

just one article I read about plasma vs. LCD vs. LED
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2387377,00.asp

Thanks for the link drinkanddestroy.

The other consideration is glossy and matte screens.  Glossy screens can look great to a casual viewer but reflections can be a problem and the gloss may obscure some of the fine details in HD video.  I've watched a few films on glossy screens and found it a bit like looking at paintings under glass frames, I'm looking at the TV rather than the images on the TV if that makes sense.  It's different technology but I don't think screens in theaters are glossy.

Next week I'm visiting one of my friends who has a fairly new 46" TV with a glossy screen and I'll see what the new BD looks like on it.


 

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« #567 : December 21, 2012, 11:52:09 PM »

I've never owned a Plasma TV, my friends don't like them owing to reliability problems, Sony stopped making them several years ago and I wonder whether really a TV can be smart enough to differentiate between good data and bad data.  For me it doesn't seem prudent to buy a TV because it obscures parts of an image and technology seems to be going in a different direction.

Having said that you certainly get a lot of TV for your money with Plasma TVs and it's claimed that they are better at coping with fast action. I'll certainly be looking at both Plasmas and LEDs when I next purchase a TV and I'm tempted to try something different.

Plasma basically needs rebranding. It is seen as an older technology that was replaced by lighter, thinner, more energy efficient, cheaper LCD/LED TVs that were not as susceptible to image burn-in.

Of course most of these aren't really issues any more (and frankly who really cares if their TV is heavy?), yet LCD/LED technology has swallowed up the market leaving only LG, Samsung and Panasonic to serve an increasingly niche plasma market.

What was of course forgotten along the way was that LCD/LED TVs do not handle motion properly (boosting things to 100/120Hz or 200/240Hz only makes things worse for different reasons). Personally I never had a problem with blurry fast action, but I am a sucker for elegant camera movement and what would really get me was the jerkiness of a high-res image as the camera scanned across the scene.

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« #568 : December 22, 2012, 03:50:45 AM »

Can anybody confirm whether that new blu ray disc is indeed region-free, despite officially being listed as region-B? I would buy it on Amazon if I knew that it would play in my region A blu ray player

Although a review at  badtaste.it  states the new BD is region free, a member of Blu-ray.com's forum thinks it is Region B locked.

He has tried the disc in a muti-region player and if he sets his player to Region A, the following message is displayed:

Translated: This disc cannot be played because the player is set to a different region code

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=6903629&postcount=95
  
  

« : July 25, 2017, 06:05:13 AM chris »
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« #569 : December 24, 2012, 03:23:53 PM »

A poster at hometheaterforum has confirmed what we've been hearing from other sources and has started another discussion on this topic. Here's his introductory post:
Quote
This quietly snuck out from Warners in Italy. The film is on one disc and people were already complaining about screen caps on one of the usual silly forums. It's always best to see the disc in motion, of course. And there's no reason a fine Blu-ray can't come for a four hour plus film on a BD 50 if there are no extras at all on the disc, which there aren't. But these people see bad compression from still frames. I don't. In any case, the disc came today.

 So, now I have seen the first forty-five minutes and I can speak having now actually seen the thing. And I'm here to tell you, compression is the least of it - spreading this transfer over five discs would not help it. Why? Because it is a complete botch job of the film called Once Upon a Time in America. Mr. Leone and Mr. Delli Colli would be fuming if they saw what their beautiful film has been turned into. I saw this film seven times in its short version and about seventeen times in its long version, and owned a beautiful LPP 35mm print of it. The photography is stunning. You would not know that from this new restoration. I have no idea what the new prints or DCP look like, I can only go by what's on this Blu-ray and it looks like crap.

 There is no contrast - just milk. The detail is blah. Worst of all (but I know it won't be bothersome to most because color problems rarely are) - the color. Awful. What a joke. Want to see the correct color and contrast, just pop in the old Warner Blu-ray and you'll see it perfectly because that's exactly what the prints looked like in terms of color and contrast (that original Blu-ray may not be perfect but side by side to this new one, it's better in every way). I find it hard to believe I'm saying this, but there is far more detail in the Warners Blu-ray than this sorry mess. You see it right from the first shot and it gets worse as you go. When it goes to Fat Moe being beaten to a pulp his blood is - brown/orange. Not vivid red - brown/orange. His hair, which is red - is brown. Then you go to the Chinese theater and gone are all the shadings and the beautiful reds and golds, rendered here lifeless and blah. Then you get to the scene in the rain where Noodles' buddies have been shot down. There's a fire truck. Brown/orange. Fire trucks are not brown/orange. Then you to to the scene in the station and see that beautiful, stunning Coney Island mural - hard to make that blah, and yet... Then Noodles comes back older and the mural is now the big apple of the Big Apple. What color is an apple? Well, in this instance it should be bright red - it's brown/orange and hardly bright. And so it goes. There are no blacks in this transfer - just milk. I put them side by side and there's no question that even if you don't like the bitrate of the original Blu-ray, if you want a Once Upon a Time in America that actually looks as it should, that's the only choice right now. I fear for watching the rest of this thing, but since none of the additional footage has appeared yet, I'll mush on just to see how all that works.

A complete failure.
If you want to follow the discussion you can do so here:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/326227/a-little-look-at-once-upon-a-time-in-america-the-restoration-on-blu-ray



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