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Author Topic: NEW DIRECTORS CUT  (Read 227766 times)
Derbent 5000
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« Reply #645 on: June 07, 2014, 12:53:44 AM »

At Cannes Film Festival press release in pdf here http://www.festival-cannes.com/assets/Image/Direct/045945.pdf was mention that new version is 4 hours 15 min 255 min, but Blu-ray released in Italy 4 hours 11 min 251 min which is US prepping to release on September 30 so there is great deal of confusion of runtime versions

« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 01:21:47 AM by Derbent 5000 » Logged
chris
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« Reply #646 on: June 07, 2014, 02:37:24 AM »

At Cannes Film Festival press release in pdf here http://www.festival-cannes.com/assets/Image/Direct/045945.pdf was mention that new version is 4 hours 15 min 255 min, but Blu-ray released in Italy 4 hours 11 min 251 min which is US prepping to release on September 30 so there is great deal of confusion of runtime versions

There's a lot of misinformation about this film. Many people including Frayling thought that the additional scenes didn't have sound and there's some confusion about the the translation of "inediti", which Google and other sources translate as unpublished but others think means unedited.

When the discs for the extended Italian version were first released, there were stickers stating 26 minutes of unpublished material.

Prior to Cannes precise details of the additional scenes were given but adding the times together gave a total of 22 mins 34 secs only.

When the discs were released the total of the additional scenes was 20 mins 51 secs only.

During the restoration process, it was stated that there was no guesswork about where the scenes should be inserted and the restorers knew the exact start and end points of each sequence.

However obviously some of the additional footage is in too poor a condition to be restored properly and some may conflict with alterations which were made to the movie in subsequent cuts.

We're still missing about 18 minutes and whilst the restorers knew the exact start and end points, they have had to do some re-editing themselves.

One obvious example is the scene between Noodles and the chauffeur prior to meeting Deborah at the theater.

In the pre-Cannes information this scene lasted 2 mins 6 secs. On the BD this lasts 1 min 10 secs.

Despite knowing the exact start and end point there's no doubt in my mind that significant re-editing has taken place.

Regarding colors I did have a quick look at a Red/Green/Blue (RGB) analysis of some of the direct captures from the Italian extended version some time ago.

For whites and blacks these values should be more or less equal, e.g. 0/0/0 for black and 255/255/255 for white.  In the Italian extended version the blue values are significantly lower than the other 2 values.  From memory I don't think that there was a corresponding disparity in the colors of the new scenes.

 

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chris
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« Reply #647 on: June 07, 2014, 03:31:19 AM »

Taking another quick look at the comparisons at caps-a-holic:

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?disc1=2737&disc2=2738&cap1=25236&cap2=25251&art=full&image=11&hd_multiID=296&action=1&lossless=#vergleich



 

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dave jenkins
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« Reply #648 on: June 07, 2014, 09:15:04 AM »

here is what restore transfer should look and I hope US transfer should look like

Source?

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Derbent 5000
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« Reply #649 on: June 08, 2014, 05:25:30 PM »

Source?

I found it online can't recall where it was back in 2013

« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 05:58:08 PM by Derbent 5000 » Logged
Derbent 5000
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« Reply #650 on: June 08, 2014, 05:27:28 PM »

Italian BD deleted scenes looks poor it's dark greenish but somehow watchable, except scenes the cemetery, limo chauffer driver, and eve meeting noodles, Martin Scorsese mention in press release that they couldn't find original negatives yet of the deleted scenes, only element were available discarded strips of working positives that has been badly preserved, since Cannes premiere movie was withdrawn for further restoration but we'll see upon US BD hope deleted scenes will look descent then on Italian BD

I hope the original negatives of missing scenes turns out some where one day, and maybe even with more deleted scenes we just have to pray wait and hope

« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 06:14:54 PM by Derbent 5000 » Logged
drinkanddestroy
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« Reply #651 on: June 08, 2014, 07:20:40 PM »

suppose good news that warner finally decide to release the movie in extended form 251 min what about other 18 min the Marty Scorsese were talking about and we don't know what transfer look like I hope not the one that got released in Italy which is terrible and main concern is extended scenes state what they would look like in US release and one more thing Blu-ray cover art cover art looks terrible they might want to consider to change   

have you ever heard of a comma? of a period?  of writing something in a way that readers should be able to understand it easily?  Wink

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chris
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« Reply #652 on: June 09, 2014, 03:01:05 AM »

At Cannes Film Festival press release in pdf here http://www.festival-cannes.com/assets/Image/Direct/045945.pdf...

Thanks for this link Derbent 5000. It would be good if the colors of the new BDs matched some of the images in the press release.

Nice to see some blues and whites again, white tablecloths and that Noodles is wearing a white shirt for his date with Deborah.









In any event I've pre-ordered my copy and just hope it will be an improvement on the present BDs plus of course the 32 page book.

  

« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 03:02:49 AM by chris » Logged
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« Reply #653 on: June 09, 2014, 03:28:29 AM »


these comparison caps are between the American WB blu-ray, and which Italian version? is it the Italian version currently out, the one that is 229 minutes; or is it the new version that is 251 minutes?

When I compared the screencaps, to me, in most of the shots the WB version is definitely superior. The colors in the WB version look much more realistic (and btwm they look much more red) whereas in the Italian version, the colors look washed out, much darker (browner?) that they would realistically be.
Of course, that does NOT mean that the WB version is the more accurate one; maybe Leone wanted the washed-out brown look, especially for the 1920's scenes. Actually, as I am writing this, I seem to recall Frayling (in STDWD) quoting Leone saying he went for brown colors in the 1920's scenes; but I am too lazy to go check the book now. So, if he was going for a sepia-like look and have muted, washed-out color to evoke the era, then maybe the Italian version is the correct one (or at least closer to correct) ; but if you're looking for correct colors, then IMO the WB version is preferable.... Again, the WB definitely is redder, so I guess we now have to go through the same discussion all over again that we've been having recently RE: GBU. I dropped out of that discussion; I may have to drop outta this one now.... Okay, insasmuch as I don't wanna get myself stressed over something that is just speculation until the disc is actually released and available for our home-viewing pleasure, I think I am gonna try to stay out of these color debates until I can actually watch the new disc for myself   Wink

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« Reply #654 on: June 09, 2014, 03:43:09 AM »

I'm preparing a fan edit with the RIGHT colors. Here are the grading tests I did on a few shots. The picture may look a bit more square than what we're use to watch but I added some details on the top and bottom so that it's easier to share on Instagram:

Deborah dancing (she now beautifully stands out against the smoky background):


The shot of the poster (the Manhattan Bridge looks gorgeous with the new grading):


After the rape (Milchan's face has never looked better with such vivid colors):


Final smile (I also removed the weird filter between the lense and Noodles' face. Everything's clean now!):


The cousin of a guy whose name is close to the one of another man who was friend with the casting assistant who almost worked on OUATIA personally supervised the new grading so we're good.

« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 03:47:27 AM by noodles_leone » Logged


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« Reply #655 on: June 09, 2014, 03:58:49 AM »

I'm preparing a fan edit with the RIGHT colors. Here are the grading tests I did on a few shots. The picture may look a bit more square than what we're use to watch but I added some details on the top and bottom so that it's easier to share on Instagram:

Deborah dancing (she now beautifully stands out against the smoky background):


etc....

This is quite funny    Grin


                                                        



these comparison caps are between the American WB blu-ray, and which Italian version? is it the Italian version currently out, the one that is 229 minutes; or is it the new version that is 251 minutes?
  
When I compared the screencaps, to me, in most of the shots the WB version is definitely superior. The colors in the WB version look much more realistic (and btwm they look much more red) whereas in the Italian version, the colors look washed out, much darker (browner?) that they would realistically be...

The comparison caps are between WBs 229 min BD and the 251 min Italian extended edition BD.

If it makes it any easier this link gives a window rather than full screen:

http://www.caps-a-holic.com...in a window#vergleich

The scene is from the 1930s, at the Don CeSar Beach Resort, St Pete Beach, Florida, there is bright sunlight as evidenced by the distinct shadows, a blue sky and lots of white towels.


The detail in the Italian BD is slightly sharper (see the striped vest above Max's head) but there are severe and obvious color, contrast and compression problems.

WB's 2011 BD was not perfect. For me parts looked slightly fuzzy (dnr?) and there is possibly a slight bluish tint. Still the best available ignoring the new scenes but hopefully it will be surpassed by WB's new version.

Sergio Leone and Tonino Delli Colli have both commented on how the movie is supposed to look and how Rn was used to obtain much deeper velvety blacks, much more luminous whites, added brilliance to everything and reinforced the contrasts.

From an interview between Sergio Leone and Jean A Gili originally published in Positif Magazine No. 280 dated June 1984 and repeated in Jean A Gili's book Italian Filmmakers published in 1998:

Sergio Leone: "Delli Colli is very good; he created fabulous photography for Once Upon a Time in America, he managed to capture the atmosphere of three different periods. Thanks to Rn, Delli Colli could play with the different eras, the twenties with the children; 1933 with pastel colors; finally our own times with sequences set in 1968. Rn is a well-known Technicolor process that's a little more expensive but can help you obtain much deeper blacks and much more luminous whites."

From Oreste de Fornari's book Sergio Leone: The Great Italian Dream Of Legendary America, which was originally published in Italian as Tutti i film di Sergio Leone.

Tonino Delli Colli: "Sergio and I understood each other very well; there was no need for a lot of instructions. We shared a point of departure, an aesthetic principle: in a Western you cannot use a lot of color. We kept to subdued shades: black, brown, off-white, since the buildings were wooden and the colors of the landscape rather vivid. In Once Upon a Time in the West we gave a sandy color to the whole copy. We like colors like these; we have the same tastes.

In Once Upon a Time in America we differentiated between three periods. For 1923, a sepia print that recalls the photos of that period. For 1930 we tried to keep the image as neutral as possible, a kind of metallic black-and-white, cold approach to the gangster films of that epoch. For 1968 no special effect. We used a little Rn, a special bath patented by Technicolor Italiana, which made the blacks more velvety, added brilliance to everything and reinforced the contrasts."

So can anyone honestly say that the Italian extended edition BD has velvety blacks, much more luminous whites, added brilliance to everything and reinforced contrasts?

  

« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 04:18:57 AM by chris » Logged
chris
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« Reply #656 on: June 09, 2014, 07:37:29 AM »

   
 
I found someone who likes the Italian extended version:

 

 




« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 07:38:35 AM by chris » Logged
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« Reply #657 on: June 09, 2014, 08:05:52 AM »

 Grin Grin Grin

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« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 08:16:58 AM by noodles_leone » Logged


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« Reply #658 on: June 09, 2014, 12:15:04 PM »

I'm sooooo glad you can find ways to thoroughly amuse yourself. Work is a little slow now, I take it?

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« Reply #659 on: June 09, 2014, 12:22:39 PM »

Work is a little slow now, I take it?

Actually not at all but I'm in the middle of terrifyingly boring things: days of screen replacements (Looks like this, but for DAYS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRLGH3iFwX4 + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqn6YmfZl5Y) and an afternoon of administrative bullshit.

« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 12:24:09 PM by noodles_leone » Logged


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