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Author Topic: NEW DIRECTORS CUT  (Read 227600 times)
roger_d
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« Reply #660 on: June 10, 2014, 12:52:20 PM »

Title: Once Upon a Time in America: Extended Director's Cut
Starring: Robert de Niro
Released: 30th September 2014
SRP: $34.99, $19.98, $17.97

Further Details:
Warner Brothers Home Entertainment sent over information on the restored, extended director's cut of Sergio Leone's ultimate epic, Once Upon a Time in America(including 22 minutes of additional footage). The Blu-ray Combo Pack version (Blu-ray/Digital Copy) will include a 32-page booklet with rare photos and production notes, along with a Blu-ray copy of the theatrical cut. There will also be single disc Blu-ray and two disc DVD version that will not include the theatrical cut. All versions will include excerpts from a Sergio Leone documentary.


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drinkanddestroy
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« Reply #661 on: June 10, 2014, 03:54:53 PM »

Thanks for the info. My thoughts/questions:

I assume "theatrical cut" means the 229MV (not the butchered travesty that was originally released in American theaters).
So this means that the two versions (the 229MV and the 251MV) will be on separate discs, rather than on a single disc with seamless branching....

Now, I don't know anything about technical stuff, but I know that when the 251MV was recently released on Italian BRD, lotsa people were complaining about the fact that it didn't look good cuz there were compression problems cuz they put the whole thing on a single disc; people were saying they should have put it on 2 discs. So it seems that on the new releases, each version will be on a single disc again, so we can expect the same compression problems? (what about dual layering? I don't remember whether that Italian release with the compression problems was single-layered or dual-layered. Any word on whether this new release will be single-layered or dual-layered?... Come to think of it, I don't recall anyone complaining about layering or compression on the original 229-minuute BRD. Would the extra 22 minutes make a big difference RE: compression? Then again, some people speculated that the reason that Italian BRD of the 251MV sucked - even the 229 minutes or original scenes looked awful, they said - was that the quality of those scenes was purposely reduced so that they wouldn't clash so badly with the new scenes, whose quality was awful. If that is true, then maybe it wasn't a compression issue after all?

Will the 229MV in this boxset be identical to the previous WB BRD; or has a restoration been done on that 229MV as well, so that the original 229 minutes - both in the new 229MV BRD and in the 251MV BRD- will be improved from the original 229-minute BRD?

It's ridiculous that they aren't having any new bonus features. Is it perhaps because they can't afford to use any more space on the disc? WOULD IT KILL THEM TO HAVE ANOTHER DISC IN THE BOXSET???
Anyway, in case you couldn't tell, I am excited Wink

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Derbent 5000
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« Reply #662 on: June 11, 2014, 02:01:56 AM »

Restored Extended Version should look like on the new upcoming US BD













(p.s. had to upload from another hosting because website went down)

« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 02:03:27 AM by Derbent 5000 » Logged
chris
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« Reply #663 on: June 11, 2014, 04:03:59 AM »

Some of the images look a bit dark to me but the color balance seems o.k.



...when the 251MV was recently released on Italian BRD, lotsa people were complaining about the fact that it didn't look good cuz there were compression problems cuz they put the whole thing on a single disc; people were saying they should have put it on 2 discs. So it seems that on the new releases, each version will be on a single disc again, so we can expect the same compression problems? (what about dual layering? I don't remember whether that Italian release with the compression problems was single-layered or dual-layered.

Will the 229MV in this boxset be identical to the previous WB BRD; or has a restoration been done on that 229MV as well, so that the original 229 minutes - both in the new 229MV BRD and in the 251MV BRD- will be improved from the original 229-minute BRD?

It's ridiculous that they aren't having any new bonus features. Is it perhaps because they can't afford to use any more space on the disc? WOULD IT KILL THEM TO HAVE ANOTHER DISC IN THE BOXSET???
Anyway, in case you couldn't tell, I am excited Wink  

Having received an email today telling me when I (as a U.K. resident) am likely to receive the new boxset (November), I'm less excited but we'll see.

The page at caps-a-holic has some of the technical details:

http://www.caps-a-holic.com...vergleich

The Italian and US BDs were both dual layered

Approx size on disc:  47.2 gigabytes (It) and 44.7 gigabytes (US)

Average compression bitrate:  17010 kps (It) and 14961 kps (US)

Codecs:  VC-1 Video  (It) and  MPEG-4 AVC Video (US)

The compression rate on WB's 2011 BD is worse. WB have received criticism in the past for over-use of DNR (digital noise reduction). Possibly over-use of DNR is why WB's 2011 BD looks a bit fuzzy to me and the compression artifacts are not as evident as those in the Italian BD. I agree that a film of this importance should be on 2 BDs. The movie has an intermission and other movies such as Ben-Hur and Cleopatra are on 2 BDs.

I think Andrea Leone Films used WB's scanner to make a new 4K scan of the 229 minute version, so both the theatrical and the extended version should be new.

All I hope for is that, in the new extended and theatrical versions, the color and contrast will be correct, i.e. the same as Leone's 1984 version, there will be no obvious compression artifacts and DNR will not be over-used.

It would also be good if the 32-page book with rare photos and production notes contains something interesting or useful such as details of the missing 18 minutes and why these can't be made public, but this is probably too much to ask for.

  


« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 04:05:40 AM by chris » Logged
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« Reply #664 on: June 11, 2014, 10:31:24 AM »

Did a quick comparison between one of the images Derbent 5000 kindly provided and direct captures from WB's 2011 BD and The Italian extended BD :




WB's 2011 BD is similar colorwise but has been cropped/zoomed in



Slight lowering of greens and a significant lowering of blues in the Italian extended BD.  Extra detail at sides.



You don't have to journey far into the movie to see the tint:

Opening Titles  (white on black?)

WB's 2011 BD



Italian extended BD



Also had a quick look at the colors in some of the new and existing scenes to see if the whole film had been deliberately tinted so that colors would tie in better.

In some of the new scenes there is a lowering of green and blue values but the new scenes still stand out like a sore thumb.  

To me it doesn't make sense to ruin a 229 minute movie to accommodate an additional 22 minutes.

Surely it would've been better to spend some more time on restoring the 20 or so minutes of new scenes and tinting them to tie in better with the other 229 minutes.




 

« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 02:39:29 AM by chris » Logged
cigar joe
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« Reply #665 on: June 11, 2014, 02:48:23 PM »

How it would all look in Black & White  Wink  Afro Afro Afro










« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 06:52:13 PM by cigar joe » Logged

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« Reply #666 on: June 11, 2014, 09:35:40 PM »

B&W looks pretty good. Yeah, I guess we can buy the new disc and dial the color down and have something where the new scenes don't stick out.

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« Reply #667 on: June 12, 2014, 04:09:00 AM »

B&W looks pretty good. Yeah, I guess we can buy the new disc and dial the color down and have something where the new scenes don't stick out.

lol, yea that's exactly what I was thinking.

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« Reply #668 on: June 12, 2014, 06:37:04 AM »

as chris says, I think it's bullshit to make the 229 minutes look bad in order to have it blend in with the other 22 minutes. Ruin more than 90% of the movie to accommodate less than 10%? They should have done the best job they could with these 22 minutes, and also done the best job they could with the 229 minutes even if that makes the 22 mins. stick out worse.

just one interesting issue to think about: if it is true that they A) did a new restoration of the 229 mins.; and B) they only screwed up the color on the 251MV so that the scenes should all look similar, then I guess that SHOULD mean that they won't screw up the color in the disc that has the 229MV; therefore, the 229MV should look a lot better than the original 229 minutes will look in the 251MV. if that's the case that the 229MV looks far better than the 251MV then I don't think I'd ever watch the 251MV, except the first time just to see how the scenes fit. Instead, I'll probably just watch the 229MV and then go to the other disc and watch those other scenes separately. Anyway, I guess we're gonna have to hope for some fan edits, mixing the 22 mins. into the best 229MV-disc, whether that is the WB one or the 229MV in the new boxset.

one a separate note: as we see in these screencaps, the WB disc was cropped on the sides; the new disc will show more on the sides. I wonder if the reason the WB disc was cropped was to get the movie to 1.78:1 instead of 1.85:1?
The movie's correct aspect ratio is 1.85:1, which means that when you watch the DVD/BRD on an HDTV (which, of course, is 1.78:1), you should see tiny black bars on top and bottom. But you don't, which means that they chopped the movie to 1.78:1 to fit the HDTV screen without any black bars. I remember asking about whether they chopped the sides, and someone on these boards said, no, in these cases, to change from 1.85:1 to 1.78:1, they usually show more on top and bottom, not less on the sides. Well, maybe he was wrong: maybe WB indeed chopped some of the sides to get it to 1.78:1. And maybe now, the restoration is attempting to return it to its correct aspect ratio of 1.85:1; we'll know for sure once the disc is released, if we see tiny black bars on top and bottom of the screen. Of course, they'd be very tiny, cuz the difference between 1.85:1 and 1.78:1 is very little. Nevertheless, I hate that they chop it; they should just release all movies in their correct aspect ratios and stop worrying that viewers don't want black bars on the screen. If we are fine with having big bars for 4:3 movies and 2.35:1 movies, why shouldn't we be happy having tiny bars for 1.85:1 movies?

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« Reply #669 on: June 13, 2014, 01:49:03 AM »

...one a separate note: as we see in these screencaps, the WB disc was cropped on the sides; the new disc will show more on the sides. I wonder if the reason the WB disc was cropped was to get the movie to 1.78:1 instead of 1.85:1?
The movie's correct aspect ratio is 1.85:1, which means that when you watch the DVD/BRD on an HDTV (which, of course, is 1.78:1), you should see tiny black bars on top and bottom. But you don't, which means that they chopped the movie to 1.78:1 to fit the HDTV screen without any black bars. I remember asking about whether they chopped the sides, and someone on these boards said, no, in these cases, to change from 1.85:1 to 1.78:1, they usually show more on top and bottom, not less on the sides. Well, maybe he was wrong: maybe WB indeed chopped some of the sides to get it to 1.78:1. And maybe now, the restoration is attempting to return it to its correct aspect ratio of 1.85:1; we'll know for sure once the disc is released, if we see tiny black bars on top and bottom of the screen. Of course, they'd be very tiny, cuz the difference between 1.85:1 and 1.78:1 is very little. Nevertheless, I hate that they chop it; they should just release all movies in their correct aspect ratios and stop worrying that viewers don't want black bars on the screen. If we are fine with having big bars for 4:3 movies and 2.35:1 movies, why shouldn't we be happy having tiny bars for 1.85:1 movies?



These are captures directly from the BDs done some time ago.

The top image is from WB's 2011 BD and the bottom one is from the Italian extended BD.

The original sizes were 1920 x 1080 but I reduced each one to 960 x 540 to make them more manageable.

I have also shown them against a white background.

It's clear that on WB's 2011 BD, there's slight zooming in which gets rid of the black bars top and bottom.

There's no zooming in on the Italian extended BD, there's extra detail at the sides and the black bars are visible.

I've played both discs on two Blu-ray players, a PS/3 and a LG.  Both players zoom in slightly, so on WB's 2011 BD you get even less picture and in the Italian extended version the black bars and some of the extra detail  are not visible.

I wish the forthcoming extended version had been put on 2 discs but we'll just have to wait until nearer the release date regarding colors, contrast and compression and hope that WB in the U.S. don't commit the same errors and lack of judgment as the Italians.

 

« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 01:52:18 AM by chris » Logged
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« Reply #670 on: June 13, 2014, 04:24:36 PM »

I remember asking about whether they chopped the sides, and someone on these boards said, no, in these cases, to change from 1.85:1 to 1.78:1, they usually show more on top and bottom, not less on the sides. Well, maybe he was wrong...

It was me who said that. It was not in reference to this release, but a more general comment. It is correct, but the operative word is "usually" because sometimes, as seems to have been the case here, they do indeed crop slightly to get that 1.78:1 ratio.

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« Reply #671 on: June 13, 2014, 06:12:04 PM »

Also, n_l once said that BRD and DVD players usually zoom a little, only computers show the full image. I guess we see that here, as someone said, the BRD players cropped a little....

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« Reply #672 on: June 13, 2014, 07:12:53 PM »

That's due to your TV. There will be a setting somewhere called "just" or the like, that will ensure that doesn't happen.

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« Reply #673 on: June 14, 2014, 02:05:50 AM »

That's due to your TV. There will be a setting somewhere called "just" or the like, that will ensure that doesn't happen.

Novecento is right but the terminology differs from TV to TV and sometimes you have to dig about a lot to find and alter the default settings.

My main TV, a Sony, doesn't have a "just" setting.  The only options are wide, smart and zoom and the black bars disappear in all three.  As long as the aspect ratio is correct e.g. round wheels and normal faces - not long or wide - a slight zooming in doesn't bother me.

There is a further setting on the Sony TV called "Display Area". The default setting is "normal" but if I set this to "Full Pixel" and use the "wide setting" the thin black bars reappear and the aspect ratio looks o.k.

One of my Samsung TVs has a "just scan" setting but it's possibly not a 16:9 screen.  If I use the "just scan" setting I get thin black bars but the aspect ratio is wrong - long faces. If I set it to 16:9, I get the right aspect ratio but even bigger black bars.  

  

« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 01:52:49 AM by chris » Logged
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« Reply #674 on: July 01, 2014, 07:52:17 PM »

Hey fellas I am afraid got some bad news about Once Upon A Time In America Extended Version US BD, here what it said on the back cover of the BD.

The newly added 22 minutes of extended scenes bring us closer to Leone original vision of the film, but due to the limited availability of 35mm work prints, the new inserts could not be restored to the same quality as the rest of the film,

that means we going to get same quality of the added scenes as it was released in Italy what a shame, nothing mentioned about color grading color correction.  

there is still 19 minutes missing as Martin Scorsese mentioned other scenes in bad state and restored them takes time, I bet there is going to be another extended version in future.

« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 08:04:02 PM by Derbent 5000 » Logged
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