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Author Topic: NEW DIRECTORS CUT  (Read 227714 times)
chris
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« Reply #690 on: September 28, 2014, 01:25:42 AM »

Man, I hope the "theatrical cut" in the new set is an improvement over the 2011 BD. The extended cut is probably something I'll only watch once, but an improved TC I could watch repeatedly for the rest of my life.

I agree. I mean, if the new scenes would be good quality,  the new version would probably be the version I'd watch for the rest of my life, but if this new version is as bad as I am hearing, I'll probably watch it once and never again. I may watch the new scenes a few times separately, but I wouldn't keep subjecting myself to 251 shitty looking minutes   Sad  

Robert Harris at hometheaterforum seems to be saying the 229 min version in the box set is WB's 2011 BD, although he has hinted that his knowledge/expertise on this particular movie is limited:

"The new boxed set is inclusive of the original long version on a separate disc, which is the old, ie. current WB version of the film, with what I perceive to be proper color."

 http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/334757-a-few-words-about%E2%84%A2-once-upon-a-time-in-america-extended-directors-cut-in-blu-ray/


It seems a bit mean of WB but I suppose it depends at what stage they did the color timing, 4K scan or restoration or transfer to BD, what has been digitally stored and what time, effort and money WB are willing to invest in the project. We should find out for certain in the next couple of days.

 
  

« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 01:39:02 AM by chris » Logged
chris
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« Reply #691 on: September 28, 2014, 01:55:23 AM »

There's also a review at hometheaterforum from Bob Cashill who saw the extended version at the New York Film Festival yesterday, at the Walter Reade Theater.   Robert De Niro, James Woods, Treat Williams, William Forsythe, and Scott Schutzman Tiler were in attendance:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/334757-a-few-words-about%E2%84%A2-once-upon-a-time-in-america-extended-directors-cut-in-blu-ray/page-2#entry4148296

Not scientific but he is full of praise for the presentation and the correct colors.

 

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dave jenkins
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« Reply #692 on: September 28, 2014, 06:59:16 AM »

Thanks, Chris. Here's the crux of his comments:
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I was treated to a gorgeous DCP!

It's not smoothed over, waxy, and grainless. You want a red Big Apple? You get a red Big Apple, not an orange Big Apple, and every other color that Sergio Leone and Tonino Delli Conti intended you to see. I've read of a yellow tint; I did detect a subtle change or shift in color when the movie enters the boyhood scenes (its great strength; so well cast and beautifully done), but it wasn't a "tint," or a color wash, or some other anomaly; if this was something I hadn't seen before, it felt organic, and proper. Unobtrusive.

The restored footage, particularly Louise Fletcher's unnecessary scene, looked and also sounded terrible. No surprise there. Darlanne Fluegel (who gets a new introductory scene in the delicate, latticed time sequencing of events) and Williams (who gets a long or lengthened scene with Woods toward the end, discussing matters easily inferred in the 229m cut) will be pleased, but the rest struck me as superfluous, and given the shape of the materials would have been much better presented as deleted scenes
I was there too, and I concur with everything said above. I'm not sure if the colors are what they were in 1985, but they looked very good, better than what's been available on the previous Blu-ray (Carlo Tafani, the camera operator on the film, is credited with overseeing the look of the new master). The re-inserted footage is a travesty, and should never have been put back in (I blame D&D). If Warner's hasn't done the right thing by giving us the 4K scan of the theatrical cut, then a fan edit will be in order.

One other thing that I have reservations about: some of the Foley seemed dicked around with, especially the gunshots. Maybe it's been that way on previous home video versions, and I'm only noticing now, but it sounded to me like 2014 effects rather than mid-80s.  This only bothered me a couple times. For most of the time I was happy with the sound, really enjoying Morricone's score, almost as if I were hearing it for the first time.

On to Tuesday!

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« Reply #693 on: September 28, 2014, 11:45:34 AM »

so  the 229 minutes look better than ever and the extra scenes look terrible? I.e., they didn't make the 229 minutes look worse just to make it look more like the rest of the scenes?

THEN WHY DID THEY HAVE TO DO THAT ON THE NEW BRD!  Angry

I am surprised that they don't have a newly restored disc of the 229 minute version. After they first showed the new cut at Cannes, and then they pulled the new scenes from circulation and just started showing a restored version of the 229 minutes, remember? They showed it at Film Forum, as discussed in this Time Out article from 2012 which includes a brief Frayling interview http://www.timeout.com/newyork/film/once-upon-a-time-in-america-restored
I remember when this was shown at Film Forum, I think I may have even seen it, not sure.

Point is, there is a 229MV that was restored by Bologna Cinematheque - so wtf wouldn't they release that version as part of this BRD boxset? WTF are they just putting the previously released BRD into the boxset?  Angry

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« Reply #694 on: October 03, 2014, 04:30:40 AM »

I ordered the new BRD from Amazon, should have it within a few days ...

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dave jenkins
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« Reply #695 on: October 03, 2014, 05:45:36 AM »

I await your report.

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chris
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« Reply #696 on: October 03, 2014, 05:48:14 AM »

...Point is, there is a 229MV that was restored by Bologna Cinematheque - so wtf wouldn't they release that version as part of this BRD boxset? WTF are they just putting the previously released BRD into the boxset?  Angry

Pure speculation on my part but I don't think that the BD released in the USA on Sep 30 2014 will be the final version of this movie ever issued.

Not rec'd my combo box set or steelbook yet but several viewers have said that the Extended Director's Cut is better that the Italian extended version and that the theatrical cut is simply a reissue of WB's 2011 BD.  

  

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« Reply #697 on: October 03, 2014, 09:08:08 AM »

I watched the extended Blu. quick thoughts:

Definitely a noticeable yellow tint throughout the entire movie. Looks very washed out compared to the 2011 WB. The extra 22-minutes generally look and sound horrible, and really aren't significant enough than just a curiosity. The only part I thought would do the movie a justice is including Noodles faking his drowning to get back at Max after the boatramp. The cut back to the 60's is interesting and also includes a quick glimpse of the infamous garbage truck. The 4 or 5 other deleted scenes are good as individual deleted scenes, but do nothing but hurt the movie. Especially Noodles meeting Eve. It's placed right in the middle of my personal favorite part of the film (Deborah's date to intermission) and really fucks with the natural flow of Noodles standing outside after the rape to the train station. I don't understand why the Eve scenes wouldn't be placed directly after the intermission. Because of that and the tint I'll probably never watch the extended cut again, but its a nice curiosity at least.

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« Reply #698 on: October 03, 2014, 10:13:14 AM »

I watched the extended Blu. quick thoughts:

Definitely a noticeable yellow tint throughout the entire movie. Looks very washed out compared to the 2011 WB.

The colors on the new DCP were certainly less vibrant than on the 2011 Blu. I liked the look, though, especially the skin tones.

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The extra 22-minutes generally look and sound horrible, and really aren't significant enough than just a curiosity

Agree

Quote
The only part I thought would do the movie a justice is including Noodles faking his drowning to get back at Max after the boatramp. The cut back to the 60's is interesting and also includes a quick glimpse of the infamous garbage truck.

Yeah, but I don't like the fact that the truck is introduced so early. And it's exactly the same truck (huh? It's permanently parked outside Bailey's mansion?) I think things are spoiled a little for the later scene; the truck is less cool/menacing if we've seen it before.

Quote
The 4 or 5 other deleted scenes are good as individual deleted scenes, but do nothing but hurt the movie. Especially Noodles meeting Eve. It's placed right in the middle of my personal favorite part of the film (Deborah's date to intermission) and really fucks with the natural flow of Noodles standing outside after the rape to the train station. I don't understand why the Eve scenes wouldn't be placed directly after the intermission.
I thought the same. The way it is now, Noodles rapes Deborah, Noodles feels bad about it and goes gets drunk, he gets picked up by Eve, they go have sex (Huh), Noodles wakes up the next morning and rushes off to see Deborah depart (HuhHuhHuhHuh). As you say, it would make so much more sense to have Noodles meeting Eve AFTER Deborah leaves on the train.

All these scenes should have been included as extras on the disc with the new 4K transfer. Let people choose which version of 229 they prefer, and give them the cut scenes AS cut scenes, and that would have been perfect. If you, I, and Kenny the men's room attendant can figure that out, why can't those cruds at Warners?

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« Reply #699 on: October 03, 2014, 10:43:46 AM »

I haven't yet seen the new version straight, but as I've said before in our (many) discussions about the new scenes, IMO the most important one is the one with Eve. Maybe you disagree with the placement of the scene, that's fine, but that scene is definitely needed. In the 229-minute version, Noodles is mourning the loss of Deborah, and the next thing we know he is not only on the beach with a new girl, Eve, but Max is talking about the heist of a lifetime in front of her (and Carol), knocking off the Federal Reserve. Eve obviously isn't just some babe he met on the beach, they are obviously very close, and there should be the introduction of how he met her. (We have been introduced to Eve early in the movie, so it's not like we haven't seen her before we see her on the beach, but those scenes at the beginning of the movie are chronologically taking place after the beach scene, of course, so IMO an introduction to Eve is warranted.

As to whether it is placed properly, and whether it is worthwhile having it in the movie considering how bad the quality is, that I can't say until I watch the full movie, once my BRD arrives in a few days.

Anyway, it's unbelievable that they find negatives from so many much earlier movies (e.g. they found the 3 cut minutes from A Streetcar Named Desire 20 years go), but a movie from 1984 doesn't have a negative in existence?   Sad

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« Reply #700 on: October 03, 2014, 11:07:56 AM »

I haven't yet seen the new version straight, but as I've said before in our (many) discussions about the new scenes, IMO the most important one is the one with Eve. Maybe you disagree with the placement of the scene, that's fine, but that scene is definitely needed.
As to whether it is placed properly, and whether it is worthwhile having it in the movie considering how bad the quality is, that I can't say until I watch the full movie, once my BRD arrives in a few days.
True. It's the most important added scene, but the placement is shit. For being 2 or 3 minutes long, I don't quite understand why Leone cut it.

Anyway, it's unbelievable that they find negatives from so many much earlier movies (e.g. they found the 3 cut minutes from A Streetcar Named Desire 20 years go), but a movie from 1984 doesn't have a negative in existence?   Sad
Scorsese and the Film Foundation are operating a scheme directly targeted toward the Leone board, where they will release "new extended directors cuts" of OUATIA, minute-by-minute added and restored every few years, to steal our money for years after the death of the eldest members. only I will see the full cut in 2078

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« Reply #701 on: October 03, 2014, 12:02:44 PM »

I don't think that I really need most of the new scenes. Actually I would like to make the film shorter as it already drags. Wink

The new scene with Eve is probably good in itself, but as I never asked myself where Noodles met Eve, and as I never had the impression that there is something missing (cause Eve is only a comparatively unimportant secondary character), the scene could only be important for the movie when it tells us something interesting about Noodles.

What OUTA needs is maybe the scene with Treat Williams, cause that was a character where I asked myself why he did not appear again after he was seen in the news.


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« Reply #702 on: October 03, 2014, 01:36:24 PM »


Scorsese and the Film Foundation are operating a scheme directly targeted toward the Leone board, where they will release "new extended directors cuts" of OUATIA, minute-by-minute added and restored every few years, to steal our money for years after the death of the eldest members. only I will see the full cut in 2078

now you are sounding like DJ.

Maybe I am naive, but I would hope that Martin Scorsese – if nobody else – actually does care about film preservation for its own sake and wouldn't hold out on new footage if he actually has it, just so that he could release more of it in a few years and make money again.

Scorsese did mention in an interview that (as we already know from STDWD) there are another 25 minutes or so that Leone intended should be in the film. Wasn't clear why they didn't add the whole 45 minutes in – do they not have those other 25 minutes (even in the crappy form that they have these 22 minutes) or are they holding out to sell a new BRD in a few years?
I would hope that they aren't holding out on us ... on the other hand, that option – bad as it is – is better than the other option, which is that they don't even have those other 25 minutes at all. I would hope/assume that those other 25 minutes are indeed around somewhere, in some crappy form.
Yeah, that's the ultimate dream, to get the full approx. 45 minutes that Leone wanted, the running time of approx. 4.5 hours

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chris
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« Reply #703 on: October 12, 2014, 01:52:18 AM »

On Roger Ebert's site there's a recent interview with Treat Williams and William Forsythe about the restored version and their memories of working with Leone:

http://www.rogerebert.com/demanders/america-the-beautiful-treat-williams-and-william-forsythe-remember-sergio-leone-and-once-upon-a-time-in-america

Treat Williams mentions that Martin Sheen auditioned but didn't get a part whilst Mickey Rourke was around at the time complaining "I can’t even get a meeting!". He's full of praise for De Niro and gives an insight into Leone's way of working.

e.g. "Working with Sergio, who was so kind but also so rough. There was one actor, a guy you just couldn’t scare if you tried, he had to show fear at a moment. Sergio had the prop guy hand him a tommy gun and he screamed ‘Action’ and opened up the tommy gun. The actor was so startled. The shot worked."

 

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dave jenkins
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« Reply #704 on: October 12, 2014, 07:49:31 AM »


Treat Williams mentions that Martin Sheen auditioned but didn't get a part whilst Mickey Rourke was around at the time complaining "I can’t even get a meeting!". He's full of praise for De Niro and gives an insight into Leone's way of working.

e.g. "Working with Sergio, who was so kind but also so rough. There was one actor, a guy you just couldn’t scare if you tried, he had to show fear at a moment. Sergio had the prop guy hand him a tommy gun and he screamed ‘Action’ and opened up the tommy gun. The actor was so startled. The shot worked."
I think the machine gun quote is actually from Forsythe.

Here's the Williams quote I most enjoyed:
Quote
“I have to tell you, that gasoline hose with which I’m being doused as the young version of my character is introduced: that hose had been very, very recently used…as a gasoline hose! As Cary Grant used to write in sections of his scripts, ‘N.A.R.’ ‘No Acting Required.’ Oh my goodness. It was just foul.”

Thanks very much for posting the link, Chris. I loved reading that article. Afro

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