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cigar joe
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« Reply #135 on: July 21, 2006, 05:11:35 PM »

Its definitely got this but its not sprung upon you cold turkey, its got a mystical explanation thats up front all the way.

Quote
The films that feature "flying around in midair" are part of a genre called the "Wu Xia Pian" genre


And Kurt Russel is a hoot channeling John Wayne  Grin

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« Reply #136 on: July 21, 2006, 05:48:55 PM »

I highly recommend the 1991 film "Once Upon A Time In China".......starring Jet Li..directed by Tsui Hark.,,& yes..the similarity of the title to Leone's film is no accident.
It's very much an ode & homage to 'Once Upon A Time In The West'..set in 19th century China ..& is  a genuine masterpiece of Hong Kong cinema.
The martial arts sequences are among the best ever..


There is one Jet Li i like called Kiss Of The Dragon which is set (i think) in Paris and it hardly contains any of the dodgy Matrixisms in the other Li films i sampled.

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« Reply #137 on: July 21, 2006, 11:09:36 PM »

I know nothing of the martial arts but in comparison to what came after, Bruce Lee was truly magical to watch in action and had this wonderful charisma missing from the likes of Chuck Norris,Jean Claud Van Damme,Jet Li,Jackie Chan and all the rest.Regardless of the quality of Lees movies these later fighters just don't look nowhere near as flowing and natural in their movements and i just love Lees whole philosophy towards his art and life in general.What a great shame Game Of Death was never completed because the surviving footage is some of the best kung fu i've seen.
Thanks AC for the clarification of Wu Xia Pian and i'm sure i saw in a Bruce Lee docu how this style of kung fu was predominant in Hong Kong cinema in the 60's and the whole genre had become stagnent because of it and Lee went out of his way to with his movies to do away with this fantasy bollocks and wow his audience with his innovative Jeet Kun Du(please excuse the spelling Embarrassed )
Enter The Dragon is one of my favourite all time movies but i enjoy all Lees other films too Smiley
The fantasy styled action films had already ceased before Bruce began filming his first HK film. Shaw Brothers personally financed the "New Hero Genre" as it was referred to in HK. This style of film featured more realistic action with the first being VENGEANCE!(although Jimmy Wang Yu's CHINESE BOXER, another Shaw hit called HAMMER OF GOD in the US is sometimes cited as the first of the then new style of HK filmmaking).

The director was Chang Cheh, a former columnist, poet and scriptwriter who was heavily influenced by Japanese gangster films particularly those by Seijun Suzuki. Changs films were ballets of bloody violence and intense action set pieces that focused on honor and heroism. His films were also male dominated with women usually having nothing to do other than be helpless or lure the heroes to there doom.

HK films up until Chang came onto the scene, were dominated by females with even male actors playing female roles in movies. There has been much speculation as to Chang Chehs sexual preference because of the imagery in many of his movies. The male leads always appear to have very close relationships, they often are shirtless and nearly every Chang film features lots of scenes of extreme violence with many scenes of characters impaled by some sharp implement. Some critics have viewed this as representing phallic symbolism.

Another trendy aspect of Changs movies were that the heroes often died with the villains-you never knew if they were going to live or not unlike American films where the good guys always lived in the end(mostly). John Woo was an apprentice to Chang Cheh and worked as an assistant director on some of his early 70s films like the classic BOXER FROM SHANTUNG a film that made its star Chen Kuan Tai famous literally over night. Many of the exact same elements of Changs movies can be found in all of John Woos films, both his HK and american films.

 Chang was called the 'million dollar director' because he was the first director to have a film break the million dollar mark at the HK box office. That film was the classic ONE ARMED SWORDSMAN from 1967. Chang would also during the early 70s direct a handful of 'cast of thousands' spectaculars. A couple of them are  BOXER REBELLION (1975) a true story about the invasion of the Forbidden City by Britain, Germany, Japan, etc...and the attempt by many chinese, who were led to believe they were invincible to the foreign guns and were massacred instead, to defend the homeland from invaders. Richard Harrison portrays a sympathetic German General. This story was touched upon in ONCE UPON A TIME IN CHINA 2 with Jet Li. SEVEN MAN ARMY (1976) a true account during WW2 were 7 chinese soldiers held off thousands of Japanese troops for five days and nights in a brave stand to hold a fort. NAVAL COMMANDOS (1976) a fictional story about 12 chinese warriors from different backgrounds who come together to get revenge for the death of a famous chinese navy admiral by crippling the japanese naval fleet.

The fantasy style films however would come back into vogue in 1976 with the release of KILLER CLANS a film based on the novels of Ku Lung who wrote hundreds of famous stories of martial chivalry. Everyone in China young or old knows about Ku Lungs stories. These movies proved so popular again that many small companies would try there hand at it but none could match Shaws with their beautifully and meticulously constructed sets, costumes and plotlines. Some of the movies are difficult to follow and require several viewings to understand. Some classic examples of these are THE JADE TIGER (1977), SWORDSMAN & THE ENCHANTRESS (1978), THE SENTIMENTAL SWORDSMAN (1977), LEGEND OF THE BAT (1978) and RETURN OF THE SENTIMENTAL SWORDSMAN (1980).

« Last Edit: July 25, 2006, 10:07:50 PM by Arizona Colt » Logged

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« Reply #138 on: July 22, 2006, 01:21:27 AM »

Wow AC,you really do know your kung fu as well as sw's and exploitation movies.How dya fit it all in? Roll Eyes
   As i said above i'm a huge fan of Enter The Dragon-in which i love the kung fu tournament with Lee,Jim Kelly & John Saxon.Are there any decent imitations out there?

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« Reply #139 on: July 22, 2006, 01:38:59 PM »

I'm not very knowledgeable on the spaghettis as I've only recently began delving more deeply into the genre. Before last year I only had about 15 spags now it's about 100. I do have 3 or 4 books(not the BIG book of lies from Weisser)on the subject.

When you say any decent imitations how do you mean? Do you mean films that feature a tournament similar to ETD? Since you like Bruce Lee a lot have you ever seen any of the Bruceploitation movies that feature a lot of Bruces and a lot of Lees, like Bruce Le, Bruce Li, Bruce Thai, Bruce Liang(who was also in KUNG FU HUSTLE), Bruce Rhee, Dragon Lee, Bronson Lee, Conan Lee, etc.........Nearly all of these movies are complete crap but many do have a so bad it's good charm about them and this genre of film has a big following too. Amazing.

One of the best and inarguably the wildest of the Bruceploitations is THE DRAGON LIVES AGAIN, a movie not to be taken seriously at all. In it Bruce Liang plays Bruce Lee who has just died and gone to Hell. The only plot is Bruce trying to fight his way back to Earth and enlisting the help of (and I'm not making this up) Kwai Chang Caine, Zatoichi, the One Armed Swordsmanand Popeye(!). They do battle with the King of Hells minions which include The Man With No Name(I'm serious), James Bond(for real), the excorcist, Emmanuelle, the Godfather, Dracula and his army of Zombies and kung fu Mummies. There's also lots of naked girls and much humor(particularly when Bruce arrives in Hell covered in a sheet with his nunchucks sticking up from between his legs making it appear he died with a hard on. Sometimes when Bruce fights he fights wearing his Kato mask from GREEN HORNET. The ending is lifted from WIZARD OF OZ and also musical cues from ENTER THE DRAGON, FISTFUL OF DOLLARS and Carl Douglas' "Kung Fu Fighting" can be heard on the soundtrack.

It was common practice in HK for there movies to feature library tracks or cues from popular American films as the tiny colony was producing upwards of 300 movies a year with Shaw Brothers alone producing 40 or more and distributing many of the others. The Shaws have I think the third largest(It's even bigger now) film production facility in the world and it was amazing the level of quality they were able to get with as many films as they were making. It was common practice in HK for actors and directors to work on 5 movies simultaneously.

With such fast and furious production practices to satisfy the appetites of moviegoers there wasn't enough time to provide original soundtracks to all films. Since HK went back to China HK Cinema itself is more or less dead. There's only a few (decent) films that come out of there now. That's one of the main reasons for Celestial Pictures, run by former Sony CEO Charles Pfeiffer, to plunk down 1.2 Billion dollars to remaster the entire Shaw Brothers back catalog using the same technology that was used to remaster the original STAR WARS trilogy several years ago.

The plan was to reaquaint people with those movies since they had not been seen since there original release. Shaw had a curious policy about not re-releasing his movies. Once they came out(in Asia) and made there money that was it, they were put back into the vault. One problem with this was that many filmmakers would later take credit for concepts that were originated at Shaws.

Jackie Chan is nearly always credited with creating the kung fu comedy in SNAKE IN THE EAGLES SHADOW(some interesting behind the scenes stories on this one) but the Shaw film THE SPIRITUAL BOXER (1975) directed by Liu Chia Liang(who is still directing and choreographing in his late 60s)started the ball rolling. Incidentally Liang directed the Jackie vehicle DRUNKEN MASTER 2 which was called LEGEND OF THE DRUNKEN MASTER here. The first DRUNKEN MASTER was made in 1979 so that may acount for the US title change(there's some interesting behind the scenes stories here too!)Although Liang is credited as director, Two chiefs can't occupy the same mountain so Jackie took control towards the end of filming claiming that people wanted to see HIS style of fighting, not the old style.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2006, 10:09:44 PM by Arizona Colt » Logged

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« Reply #140 on: July 23, 2006, 04:17:44 AM »

When you say any decent imitations how do you mean? Do you mean films that feature a tournament similar to ETD? Since you like Bruce Lee a lot have you ever seen any of the Bruceploitation movies that feature a lot of Bruces and a lot of Lees, like Bruce Le, Bruce Li, Bruce Thai, Bruce Liang(who was also in KUNG FU HUSTLE), Bruce Rhee, Dragon Lee, Bronson Lee, Conan Lee, etc.........Nearly all of these movies are complete crap but many do have a so bad it's good charm about them and this genre of film has a big following too.
Yeah i did mean kung fu films with tournaments and i like the Dr No style baddie as well.Theres plenty of leads,thank you very much Wink,for Bruceploitation movies so i guess there aren't any big budget films with big names like Jet Li,Chow Fat thingy etc in a similar vein to ETD?One really good film whose title escapes me with Chuck Norris which reminds me a little bit of a Bruce Lee film has a finale in a hexagonal fort where Norris takes on a whole army of fighters.

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« Reply #141 on: July 23, 2006, 03:58:23 PM »

AC just so its a bit easier on the eyes break up your postings into paragraphs, its hard to read what you write thanks Smiley

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« Reply #142 on: July 23, 2006, 04:05:05 PM »

July 23 2006 update:

Watched "White Comanche" om TCM yesterday with William Shatner and Joseph Cotton, what a piece of crap, lol, and a horrible score to boot. Any way since there is no catagory for forgedabodit, try to rent first if you are dying to see Captian Kirk in a SW.


Of the following lists  the A list contains SW's that deliver
that equal or almost up there quality. These films are worth getting and being part of your collection.

The "A" list of "Must Haves" so far in decending order (desending in quality from Leone the top five are very good are all equal, Sollima's Big Gundown being almost a Leone clone):

The Big Gundown (great)
The Mercenary (the best)
Companero''s (great)
Death Rides A Horse (great)
A Bullet For The General (great)
Run Man Run (great)
The Great Silence (great)
Cemetery Without Crosses (good)
Keoma (good)
Tepepa (good)
Day Of Anger (flawed)
Face To Face (flawed)


The "B" List (worthy efforts):

A Man Called Sledge (good but cut)
A Minute To Pray A Second to Die (ok but cut)
Mannaja A Man Called Blade (ok)
Blindman (tongue in cheek but inpsired lunacy)
And God Said To Cain (ok a spaghetti/suspence/gothic film that feels more like a made for TV film)

The not sure if they are classified as Spaghetti Westerns but likely Euro Westerns partially shot in Almeria List:

Villa Rides (great)
Renegade (great)
Red Sun (good)
The Hunting Party (ok)
Shalako (ok)
100 Rifles (ok)

In a class by itself but has SW influences

El Topo (good but very flawed)

To rent first before you buy if curious List*:

The Specialist (good, but way off the mark and very seriously flawed)
Man Pride Vengeance ("Carmen" Spaghetti Style)
The Grand Duel (flawed)
Four of the Apocalypse (flawed)
El Condor (need to see again)
Django (cool parts, dopey parts, dopey dubbing)
Price of Power (flawed)
Navajo Joe (flawed)
Four of the Apocalypse (flawed)
Beyond the Law (hohum)
Kill & Pray (dopey)
Captain Apache (the worst so far)
A Bullet For Sandoval (crappy VHS need to see again)
I am Sartana your Angel of Death (too dopey for me)
Bad Man's River (horrible)
White Comache (wose than Captian Apache)


*This list could probably go up into the 100''s but I''m not going to be inclined to watching many off the wall SW''s, if you drop in on the SW''s board you''ll hear about a lot of obscure titles.

Again Feel free to add or comment.


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« Reply #143 on: July 23, 2006, 04:08:06 PM »

July 23 2006 update:

Watched "White Comanche" om TCM yesterday with William Shatner and Joseph Cotton, what a piece of crap, lol, and a horrible score to boot. Any way since there is no catagory for forgedabodit, try to rent first if you are dying to see Captian Kirk in a SW.


Of the following lists  the A list contains SW's that deliver
that equal or almost up there quality. These films are worth getting and being part of your collection.

The "A" list of "Must Haves" so far in decending order (desending in quality from Leone the top five are very good are all equal, Sollima's Big Gundown being almost a Leone clone):

The Big Gundown (great)
The Mercenary (the best)
Companero''s (great)
Death Rides A Horse (great)
A Bullet For The General (great)
Run Man Run (great)
The Great Silence (great)
Cemetery Without Crosses (good)
Keoma (good)
Tepepa (good)
Day Of Anger (flawed)
Face To Face (flawed)


The "B" List (worthy efforts):

A Man Called Sledge (good but cut)
A Minute To Pray A Second to Die (ok but cut)
Mannaja A Man Called Blade (ok)
Blindman (tongue in cheek but inpsired lunacy)
And God Said To Cain (ok a spaghetti/suspence/gothic film that feels more like a made for TV film)

The not sure if they are classified as Spaghetti Westerns but likely Euro Westerns partially shot in Almeria List:

Villa Rides (great)
Renegade (great)
Red Sun (good)
The Hunting Party (ok)
Shalako (ok)
100 Rifles (ok)

In a class by itself but has SW influences

El Topo (good but very flawed)

To rent first before you buy if curious List*:

The Specialist (good, but way off the mark and very seriously flawed)
Man Pride Vengeance ("Carmen" Spaghetti Style)
The Grand Duel (flawed)
Four of the Apocalypse (flawed)
El Condor (need to see again)
Django (cool parts, dopey parts, dopey dubbing)
Price of Power (flawed)
Navajo Joe (flawed)
Four of the Apocalypse (flawed)
Beyond the Law (hohum)
Kill & Pray (dopey)
Captain Apache (the worst so far)
A Bullet For Sandoval (crappy VHS need to see again)
I am Sartana your Angel of Death (too dopey for me)
Bad Man's River (horrible)
White Comache (wose than Captian Apache)


*This list could probably go up into the 100''s but I''m not going to be inclined to watching many off the wall SW''s, if you drop in on the SW''s board you''ll hear about a lot of obscure titles.

Again Feel free to add or comment.



Impressive list Cigar Joe.

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« Reply #144 on: July 24, 2006, 11:07:22 PM »

AC just so its a bit easier on the eyes break up your postings into paragraphs, its hard to read what you write thanks Smiley
Sorry Joe, I have limited time so I'm typing very quickly. I'll try and make it easier from now on. Sorry 'bout that.

For Banjo, the film you're referring with Norris is THE OCTAGON with Tadashi Yamashita, one of the last Budo warriors on the planet who was also the main villain in AMERICAN NINJA and was a star in the 70s in his native Japan. He was the actor who was BRONSON LEE in three movies. Lee Van Cleef is also in THE OCTAGON.

If you're looking for big budget HK films reminiscent of ETD most of the Shaw films and Golden Harvest had the biggest budgets in HK. These two companies also had partnerships with US companies. The Shaws co-produced Ridley Scotts BLADE RUNNER and THE DUELLISTS, METEOR with Sean Connery, CLEOPATRA JONES & THE CASINO OF GOLD and a few others while Golden Harvest co-produced ETD, CANNONBALL RUN 1 & 2, and the MEGA-crappy MEGAFORCE with Barry Bostwick and Henry Silva. You know this one, with the lightsabres and flying motorcycles? One of the worst of all time.

The big names you mention are/were big but HK in the 70s had stars just as big if not more so like Chen Kuan Tai who became famous over night for THE BOXER FROM SHANTUNG 1972(Bruce Lee was supposed to have done a movie with Chen) and its sequel MAN OF IRON. BFST was different from most action fare of the time as it was more character driven than most about a poor dock worker who dreams to one day be a man with power. He later becomes a powerful gangster who when at the top of the ladder, finds it's a long way down. The peckinpahish finale is one of the most bloodsoaked final 20 minutes you'll ever see. Chens career lasted well over 25 years.

Alexander Fu Sheng-One of the biggest HK stars ever and the prototype for Jackie Chan. Nearly every movie the man did turned to box office gold. Tragically, Fu's life was cut short when he was killed in a car accident in 1983. He died 2 hours after being treated in hospital. He was 29 years old. One strange twist of fate was that Fu Sheng bought the house previously owned by Bruce Lee. A house noted for its bad Feng Shui. Fu also broke his legs two different times while filming movies and when he died he was half way through the filming of Liu Chia Liangs masterpiece THE 8 DIAGRAM POLE FIGHTER and the script had to be drastically altered. He was made famous beginning with two of the biggest HK hits of 74, HEROES TWO and MEN FROM THE MONASTERY.

Ti Lung & David Chiang-Two of the biggest stars of all time regardless of country. During the 70s no studio could touch Shaws and these two were two of the reasons why. Much was made in the HK tabloids that the two had a gay relationship which was never proven and they were both married although in some of there films like NEW ONE ARMED SWORDSMAN and THE ANONYMOUS HEROES they have very close relationships but then that was one of Chang Chehs cinematic conventions that John Woo and others learned from him. Brotherhood among men was most important. Some of you may remember Chiang from the Shaw-Hammer film LEGEND OF THE 7 GOLDEN VAMPIRES while Ti Lung was in SHATTER. These two were in some of the biggest budgeted HK films ever like SHAOLIN TEMPLE, 7 MAN ARMY and THE WATER MARGIN. Ti Lung also played Jackie Chans dad(even though he's only 7 years older than Chan)in DRUNKEN MASTER 2 called LEGEND OF DRUNKEN MASTER here.

The 5 Venoms-Hugely popular in the US among fans. One of Chang Chehs brainstorms was to produce a series of films using the same 5 actors in various roles. The Venoms consisted of Kuo Chui(who did choreography for BROTHERHOOD OF THE WOLF and TOMORROW NEVER DIES), Lo Mang, Sun Chien, Lu Feng and Chiang Sheng. In the film 5 VENOMS, a dying master sends his last student of the Poison Clan to find his 5 remaining pupils some of which are plotting to kill a classmate of there master and steal the gold made from the clan over the years. The only problem is that while the 5 students trained at different times, they wore masks that represented there styles-snake, centipede, lizard, scorpion and toad(an invincible style that rendered the practitioner invulnerable except for one weak spot that if hit would cause the fighter to lose his strength)so none but two knew each other. There's lots of intrigue, double crosses and rather unsettling torture devices used like the Iron Maiden and the Iron Coat as well as one poor soul who has a silver needle pushed through his nose to pierce his brain.

This film was a hit in HK in 1978 so other titles followed like KID WITH THE GOLDEN ARM, MAGNIFICENT RUFFIANS, CRIPPLED AVENGERS, HOUSE OF TRAPS, FLAG OF IRON and REBEL INTRUDERS. All the Venom films were very comic book in style and many of them carried a color motif. The Venom films were not as serious as Changs earlier work but concentrated more on the choreography and outlandish violence. Besides, Chang was in his 60s when he made these late 70s early 80s films so he was entitled to have a little fun by that time.

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« Reply #145 on: July 25, 2006, 04:32:17 PM »

Many thanks once again AC,there is life after sw's! Smiley

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« Reply #146 on: August 19, 2006, 10:13:30 AM »

August 2006 update:

Chato's land (1972)

You Know, I finally caught up with this again today MGM DVD, and in my earlier post I think I go it confused with Unzana's raid with Burt Lancaster, "Apache" with Burt Lancaster, and "Tell Then Willie Boy is Here" with Robert Blake. I don't remember this flick.

They have the same sort of situational sequences, but the story lines are different.

Chato's Land (1972) Dir. Michale Winner. Charles Bronson, Jack Palance, and a stable of very familiar character and TV actors,  Richard Basehart, Simon Oakland, Ralph Waite, and Victor French.

Shot in Almeria, with familiar landscapes, and some new ones. The setting is either West Texas or New Mexico, it never specifies, but there may be clues in the townsequences that I haven't caught.

Its that subcategory of Western that you'd call  a chase/manhunt.

Bronson looking cool as a half breed Apache Pardon Chato is acosted by a white sherrif in a saloon who says basicall in close to these words "no red niggers alowed to drink in here". Chato ignores the man. He moves around behind a stoic Chato and pulls his gun but Chato spins around and drops him. Chato leaves town.

The leading citizens of the town (Texas Hollywood) get ex Confederate Captain Quincey Whitmore to gather up some of his former soldiers and able men from the local ranches to hunt down Chato and hang him.

Plalance who dons his old CSA uniform tunic and hat out of a trunk is great in this role, he turns from a deterimed pursuer to a man concerened for his men once Chato turns the table on him, he is hampered by the blood lust of Jubal Hooker (Simon Oakland) who's blinded by revenge.

This film does a good job of depicting Natives and living off the land in desert environment. I thoroughly enjoyed the film. Its brutal and violent and unfortunately the R1 version is cut of a rape, and a shot through the hand from what I've heard. But its still that good and Bronson is impeccabe.

If you are going to collect Bronson Westerns these are my picks so far, OUTITW, Villa Rides, Red Sun, Chato's Land.

Fieldings score is adequate, but this is one aspect that probably 95% of Westerns suffer from.

Light years better than Shalako, it remindes me of "The Hunting Party" that I also picked up recently, thumbs up from me. 



Of the following lists  the A list contains SW's that deliver
that equal or almost up there quality. These films are worth getting and being part of your collection.

The "A" list of "Must Haves" so far in decending order (desending in quality from Leone the top five are very good are all equal, Sollima's Big Gundown being almost a Leone clone):

The Big Gundown (great)
The Mercenary (the best)
Companero''s (great)
Death Rides A Horse (great)
A Bullet For The General (great)
Run Man Run (great)
The Great Silence (great)
Cemetery Without Crosses (good)
Keoma (good)
Tepepa (good)
Day Of Anger (flawed)
Face To Face (flawed)


The "B" List (worthy efforts):

A Man Called Sledge (good but cut)
A Minute To Pray A Second to Die (ok but cut)
Mannaja A Man Called Blade (ok)
Blindman (tongue in cheek but inpsired lunacy)
And God Said To Cain (ok a spaghetti/suspence/gothic film that feels more like a made for TV film)

The not sure if they are classified as Spaghetti Westerns but likely Euro Westerns partially shot in Almeria List:

Villa Rides (great)
Renegade (great)
Chato's Land (great)
Red Sun (good)
The Hunting Party (ok)
Shalako (ok)
100 Rifles (ok)

In a class by itself but has SW influences

El Topo (good but very flawed)

To rent first before you buy if curious List*:

The Specialist (good, but way off the mark and very seriously flawed)
Man Pride Vengeance ("Carmen" Spaghetti Style)
The Grand Duel (flawed)
Four of the Apocalypse (flawed)
El Condor (need to see again)
Django (cool parts, dopey parts, dopey dubbing)
Price of Power (flawed)
Navajo Joe (flawed)
Four of the Apocalypse (flawed)
Beyond the Law (hohum)
Kill & Pray (dopey)
Captain Apache (the worst so far)
A Bullet For Sandoval (crappy VHS need to see again)
I am Sartana your Angel of Death (too dopey for me)
Bad Man's River (horrible)
White Comache (wose than Captian Apache)


*This list could probably go up into the 100''s but I''m not going to be inclined to watching many off the wall SW''s, if you drop in on the SW''s board you''ll hear about a lot of obscure titles.

Again Feel free to add or comment.




Impressive list Cigar Joe. 
Posted by: cigar joe  Posted on: July 23, 2006, 03:05:05 PM 
Insert Quote 
July 23 2006 update:

Watched "White Comanche" om TCM yesterday with William Shatner and Joseph Cotton, what a piece of crap, lol, and a horrible score to boot. Any way since there is no catagory for forgedabodit, try to rent first if you are dying to see Captian Kirk in a SW.


Of the following lists  the A list contains SW's that deliver
that equal or almost up there quality. These films are worth getting and being part of your collection.

The "A" list of "Must Haves" so far in decending order (desending in quality from Leone the top five are very good are all equal, Sollima's Big Gundown being almost a Leone clone):

The Big Gundown (great)
The Mercenary (the best)
Companero''s (great)
Death Rides A Horse (great)
A Bullet For The General (great)
Run Man Run (great)
The Great Silence (great)
Cemetery Without Crosses (good)
Keoma (good)
Tepepa (good)
Day Of Anger (flawed)
Face To Face (flawed)


The "B" List (worthy efforts):

A Man Called Sledge (good but cut)
A Minute To Pray A Second to Die (ok but cut)
Mannaja A Man Called Blade (ok)
Blindman (tongue in cheek but inpsired lunacy)
And God Said To Cain (ok a spaghetti/suspence/gothic film that feels more like a made for TV film)

The not sure if they are classified as Spaghetti Westerns but likely Euro Westerns partially shot in Almeria List:

Villa Rides (great)
Renegade (great)
Red Sun (good)
The Hunting Party (ok)
Shalako (ok)
100 Rifles (ok)

In a class by itself but has SW influences

El Topo (good but very flawed)

To rent first before you buy if curious List*:

The Specialist (good, but way off the mark and very seriously flawed)
Man Pride Vengeance ("Carmen" Spaghetti Style)
The Grand Duel (flawed)
Four of the Apocalypse (flawed)
El Condor (need to see again)
Django (cool parts, dopey parts, dopey dubbing)
Price of Power (flawed)
Navajo Joe (flawed)
Four of the Apocalypse (flawed)
Beyond the Law (hohum)
Kill & Pray (dopey)
Captain Apache (the worst so far)
A Bullet For Sandoval (crappy VHS need to see again)
I am Sartana your Angel of Death (too dopey for me)
Bad Man's River (horrible)
White Comache (wose than Captian Apache)


*This list could probably go up into the 100''s but I''m not going to be inclined to watching many off the wall SW''s, if you drop in on the SW''s board you''ll hear about a lot of obscure titles.

Again Feel free to add or comment.

 



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« Reply #147 on: August 20, 2006, 07:49:12 AM »

August 2006 update:
 if you drop in on the SW''s board you''ll hear about a lot of obscure titles.
But hopefully not forgetting Firecrackers excellent new thread for obscure sw's Roll Eyes

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=3802.0

and of course his "crappiest sw" guide Grin

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2976.0

« Last Edit: August 20, 2006, 07:51:01 AM by banjo » Logged
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« Reply #148 on: October 28, 2006, 07:21:58 PM »

Finally watched "El Condor" again after 30 + years and its not as bad as I remembered but its not great either, mostly for Lee Van Cleefs character Jaroo is it worth watching and for the charms of Marianna Hill ;-).

Also watched "Doc" an Almeria shot AW with Stacey Keach and Fay Dunaway that's has some good atmosphere but laking everywhere else.

Of the following lists  the A list contains SW's that deliver
that equal or almost up there quality. These films are worth getting and being part of your collection.

The "A" list of "Must Haves" so far in decending order (desending in quality from Leone the top five are very good are all equal, Sollima's Big Gundown being almost a Leone clone):

The Big Gundown (great)
The Mercenary (the best)
Companero''s (great)
Death Rides A Horse (great)
A Bullet For The General (great)
Run Man Run (great)
The Great Silence (great)
Cemetery Without Crosses (good)
Keoma (good)
Tepepa (good)
Day Of Anger (flawed)
Face To Face (flawed)


The "B" List (worthy efforts):

A Man Called Sledge (good but cut)
A Minute To Pray A Second to Die (ok but cut)
Mannaja A Man Called Blade (ok)
Blindman (tongue in cheek but inpsired lunacy)
And God Said To Cain (ok a spaghetti/suspence/gothic film that feels more like a made for TV film)

The not sure if they are classified as Spaghetti Westerns but likely Euro Westerns partially shot in Almeria List:

Villa Rides (great)
Renegade (great)
Red Sun (good)
The Hunting Party (ok)
Shalako (ok)
100 Rifles (ok)

In a class by itself but has SW influences

El Topo (good but very flawed)

To rent first before you buy if curious List*:

The Specialist (good, but way off the mark and very seriously flawed)
Man Pride Vengeance ("Carmen" Spaghetti Style)
The Grand Duel (flawed)
Four of the Apocalypse (flawed)
El Condor (good for Van Cleefs performance)
Django (cool parts, dopey parts, dopey dubbing)
Price of Power (flawed)
Navajo Joe (flawed)
Four of the Apocalypse (flawed)
Beyond the Law (hohum)
Doc (some atmosphere but little else)
Kill & Pray (dopey)
Captain Apache (the worst so far)
A Bullet For Sandoval (crappy VHS need to see again)
I am Sartana your Angel of Death (too dopey for me)
Bad Man's River (horrible)
White Comache (wose than Captian Apache)


*This list could probably go up into the 100''s but I''m not going to be inclined to watching many off the wall SW''s, if you drop in on the SW''s board you''ll hear about a lot of obscure titles.

Again Feel free to add or comment.


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« Reply #149 on: March 31, 2007, 07:16:26 PM »

Ok gonna dust this topic off since today I watched Corbucci's "The Hellbenders" (Il Crudeli -1967).

Got the Anchor Bay DVD off Amazon.com and sat down and watched this Joseph Cotton starring flick with Norma Bengell, Julian Mateos & Gino Pernice. It also has cameos by Benito Steffenelli, Aldo Sambrel, and Al Mulock.

This was a film that looked and felt very much like an American Western, though it did have SW twists. A Union Cavalry detachement is escorting a million dollars in old currency to be destroyed (burned). Joseph Cotton plays an ex Confederate officer determined to take the money and make a new start, resurrecting the Confederacy. So the story concerns the stealing of the money and the treck to get it to safety through a countryside swarming with soldiers and civilian posses all looking for the perpetrators. Cotton plays the part well.

This film is pretty much devoid of SW style standoff gunfights and derives most of its tension from the various encounters and twists in the plot. All this is very well done. The actors that play Cotton's sons could have used a bit more fleshing out but thats a minor quibble.

However its supposed to be just after the end of the Civil War and here the "curse of Leone" rears its head. Now I don't know about you but ever since I've seen GBU and the rest of Leone's work I've been effected by the "curse" which is Leone emphasized the weaponry and ever since I've paid attention to this particular aspect of all Westerns.

In Il Crudeli the ex Southerners of the "Hellbenders" Regiment are equiped with Winchesters. Ok in 1866 there were "Yellow Boy" Winchesters so you can over look this, but the six guns they carry are Colt 1873 Peacemakers, a big anachronisim, that could and should have been corrected, and is not easy to overlook. Other that this,  this film is entertaining but it could have been great. Morricone's score is average, nothing that memorable.

Al Mulock has the biggest part I've ever seen and he does an excellent job, and its worth a look for this alone.

Here is a film that could be remade with a slightly bigger budget and a better attention to accuracy, its a great story and I can see a modern version of this somewhere down the line if Westerns come into vogue again.

Its A list but flawed.

Of the following lists  the A list contains SW's that deliver
that equal or almost up there quality. These films are worth getting and being part of your collection.

The "A" list of "Must Haves" so far in decending order (desending in quality from Leone the top five are very good are all equal, Sollima's Big Gundown being almost a Leone clone):

The Big Gundown (great)
The Mercenary (the best)
Companero''s (great)
Death Rides A Horse (great)
A Bullet For The General (great)
Run Man Run (great)
The Great Silence (great)
Cemetery Without Crosses (good)
Keoma (good)
Tepepa (good)
Day Of Anger (flawed)
Face To Face (flawed)
The Hellbenders (flawed)


The "B" List (worthy efforts):

A Man Called Sledge (good but cut)
A Minute To Pray A Second to Die (ok but cut)
Mannaja A Man Called Blade (ok)
Blindman (tongue in cheek but inpsired lunacy)
And God Said To Cain (ok a spaghetti/suspence/gothic film that feels more like a made for TV film)

The not sure if they are classified as Spaghetti Westerns but likely Euro Westerns partially shot in Almeria List:

Villa Rides (great)
Renegade (great)
Red Sun (good)
The Hunting Party (ok)
Shalako (ok)
100 Rifles (ok)

In a class by itself but has SW influences

El Topo (good but very flawed)

To rent first before you buy if curious List*:

The Specialist (good, but way off the mark and very seriously flawed)
Man Pride Vengeance ("Carmen" Spaghetti Style)
The Grand Duel (flawed)
Four of the Apocalypse (flawed)
El Condor (good for Van Cleefs performance)
Django (cool parts, dopey parts, dopey dubbing)
Price of Power (flawed)
Navajo Joe (flawed)
Four of the Apocalypse (flawed)
Beyond the Law (hohum)
Doc (some atmosphere but little else)
Kill & Pray (dopey)
Captain Apache (the worst so far)
A Bullet For Sandoval (crappy VHS need to see again)
I am Sartana your Angel of Death (too dopey for me)
Bad Man's River (horrible)
White Comache (wose than Captian Apache)


*This list could probably go up into the 100''s but I''m not going to be inclined to watching many off the wall SW''s, if you drop in on the SW''s board you''ll hear about a lot of obscure titles.

Again Feel free to add or comment.


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