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Author Topic: A Leone Lover's Guide To Other Spaghetti Westerns  (Read 41509 times)
cigar joe
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« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2004, 08:01:10 PM »

Rent it and watch Navajo Joe but don't spend any money to buy it, its only worth checking out out of curiosity.

It has Navajo's who live in hogans living in tipis, it has Bert Reynolds in a buckskin outfit the top half of which is cut  in a low "U" like a tuxedo vest. Aldo Sambrel is the chief baddie scalp hunter but the sclaps he takes look like wigs. There is an indian burial ground set right near a very obvious man made tunnel.

Its like somebody took plot elements from bad TV shows and strung them all together into a story, it even has a trained horse a la Roy Rodgers / Gene Autry that Bert uses for various tricks.  Its pretty laughable.

But if you know nothing about the real West you'd probably find it very entertaining, Watch "Ulzana's Raid" in contrast.

« Last Edit: June 22, 2009, 05:25:30 PM by cigar joe » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2004, 02:26:27 AM »

you're right cigar joe, i have never seen the 2 zapata westerns shot by corbucci... i'll try to see them.
And you're right too when you say that Django has to be seen, at least with an historical interest. Telling the truth, this is the only thing that made me stay and whatch it until the end Smiley
But i'm not sure that people who love leone will like it: one of the major interests of leone's work is the camera work... django's camerawork makes me think more to a tv show than to a leone movie  Undecided

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« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2004, 04:22:40 AM »

I don't know, Django was the first non-Leone SW I saw and I haven't look back since. In actual fact I hunted it down not because I was into Leone, but because a clip of it is used in Perry Henzell's The Harder they Come (which by the way is film I would definately recommend to any Leone fan, above other SWs). Corbucci might not have honed his talents at this point, but he wasn't stupid - I think there is something deliberate in its over-the-topness. Obviously the dubbing is terrible, which might make it less enjoyable to watch, but doesn't make it a bad film in itself.

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« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2004, 04:50:30 AM »

The Harder They Come is great.

I guess on SW's its a matter of individual tastes, and a matter of criteria, on what you are judging.

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« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2004, 11:12:12 AM »

I don't know, Django was the first non-Leone SW I saw and I haven't look back since. In actual fact I hunted it down not because I was into Leone, but because a clip of it is used in Perry Henzell's The Harder they Come (which by the way is film I would definately recommend to any Leone fan, above other SWs). Corbucci might not have honed his talents at this point, but he wasn't stupid - I think there is something deliberate in its over-the-topness. Obviously the dubbing is terrible, which might make it less enjoyable to watch, but doesn't make it a bad film in itself.
Bingo, the dubbing is horrible, and Corbucci is no Leone with the Camera, but the story, the characters and the gags all work.

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« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2004, 04:09:24 PM »

Ok now I'm just tweaking & updating the original thread since I have seen Day Of Anger.

I've had mixed results with following Howard Hughes "Pocket Essentials Spaghetti Westerns" trying to expand my collection of good SW's, what we really need is a "Leone Lovers Guide to Spaghetti Westerns. Hughes is giving a more historical perspective covering the essential SW's of the genre, films that set precedents, benchmarks, big euro/italo box office and not necessarily something we Leone weaned fans would generaly like.

If I had to compile a list of the Leone Lover's Guide to SW DVD's the below list would be my current "A" list with the most similar in style and quality to Leone at the top and farther down the more they stray, not necessarily in quality but in style. Some touchstones of my criteria would be story, entertainment, humor, cinematography, quality, look, actors, sets, score. This list only includes the the DVD's or VHS tapes of Spaghetti Westerns I've seen to date and I've included the Zapata Westerns also.

Note: A lot of the "A" list features Morricone scores, but beware of Keoma, this Lenoard Cohen/Tiny Tim sounding score is a turn off to some, watch it with the sound off, and subtitles in English on, lol. Supposedly Castellari edited this film with Bod Dylan and Lenoard Cohen playing he was wanting to quote Peckinpaw's "Pat Garret & Billy The Kid" and "McCabe & Mrs. Miller".

 Another warning, some of your favorite Leone actors are dubbed by different voice actors, which is kind of hard to take at times, this has been commented on espcially for Gian Maria Volonte in "A Bullet for the General" and "Face to Face", also some of the full lenght uncut films were never dubbed in English so in these segments the actors speak Italian with English subtitles, a small price to pay to see a directors full cut.

The one truely great experience you'll get in watching some of these films is that very same one you felt seeing Leone's westerns for the first time, especially if you originally saw them in the theater, they really bring you back to that initial "WOW" partly because they are so hauntingly familiar and yet different almost like meeting distant relatives that you instantly regognize  as kin.  They look and feel almost like Leone films though they are not. The Almeria scenery and that different style stands out in stark contrast from most of the post SW modern western films we see today. For those of you who were around when the first Leone SW's  came out on thebig screen seeing some of these will be like going back in time.  

Another point to ponder, with Corbucci"s westerns is the varying range in quality and production values. Great Silence is way better than Django and The Mercenary & Companeros are light years better that TGS.

The "A" list so far:

The Big Gundown
The Mercenary
Companero's
Death Rides A Horse
Day Of Anger
Run Man Run
Face To Face
The Great Silence
Keoma
A Bullet For The General

The "B" List (worthy efforts):

A Man Called Sledge
A Minute To Pray A Second to Die

The not sure if they are classified as Spaghetti Westerns but likely Euro Westerns shot in Almeria List:

Red Sun
Shalako
100 Rifles

More to come here.

To Stay away from List:

El Condor
Django
Navajo Joe
Captain Apache (the worst so far)
A Bullet For Sandoval (VHS)

*This list could probably go up into the 100's but I'm not going to be inclined to watching many off the wall SW's, if you drop in on the SW's board you'll hear about a lot of obscure titles. My local rental store has  a VHS of LVC's "Bad Man's River", I'll probably break down and rent it soon and add it hear.

Again Feel free to add or comment.



« Last Edit: December 01, 2004, 04:17:10 PM by cigar joe » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2004, 04:45:12 PM »

BAD MAN'S RIVER.....to be avoided, Cigar Joe. Think of a b-movie version of CRAPTAIN.....sorry, CAPTAIN APACHE. It's downhill after that. Life is just tooo damm short! Shocked

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« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2004, 05:00:30 PM »

What no vocals by the Man with the Gunsight Eyes? Shocked

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« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2004, 05:49:50 AM »

My continnuing on running list for Leone Lover's.

 A new update since I've seen "Mannaja a man called Blade"

The "A" list so far:

The Big Gundown
The Mercenary
Companero's
Death Rides A Horse
Day Of Anger
Run Man Run
Face To Face
The Great Silence
Keoma
A Bullet For The General

The "B" List (worthy efforts):

A Man Called Sledge
A Minute To Pray A Second to Die
Mannaja A Man Called Blade

The not sure if they are classified as Spaghetti Westerns but likely Euro Westerns shot in Almeria List:

Red Sun
Shalako
100 Rifles

More to come here.

To Stay away from List:

El Condor
Django
Navajo Joe
Captain Apache (the worst so far)
A Bullet For Sandoval (VHS)

*This list could probably go up into the 100's but I'm not going to be inclined to watching many off the wall SW's, if you drop in on the SW's board you'll hear about a lot of obscure titles. My local rental store has  a VHS of LVC's "Bad Man's River", I'll probably break down and rent it soon and add it hear.

Again Feel free to add or comment.


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« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2004, 06:42:20 AM »

My continnuing on running list for Leone Lover''s.

A new update since I''ve seen "Tepepa" (Blood & Guns)
The "A" list so far:

The Big Gundown
The Mercenary
Companero''s
Death Rides A Horse
Day Of Anger
Run Man Run
Face To Face
The Great Silence
Keoma
Tepepa
A Bullet For The General

The "B" List (worthy efforts):

A Man Called Sledge
A Minute To Pray A Second to Die
Mannaja A Man Called Blade

The not sure if they are classified as Spaghetti Westerns but likely Euro Westerns shot in Almeria List:

Red Sun
Shalako
100 Rifles

More to come here.

To Stay away from List:

El Condor
Django
Navajo Joe
Captain Apache (the worst so far)
A Bullet For Sandoval (VHS)

*This list could probably go up into the 100''s but I''m not going to be inclined to watching many off the wall SW''s, if you drop in on the SW''s board you''ll hear about a lot of obscure titles. My local rental store has  a VHS of LVC''s "Bad Man''s River", I''ll probably break down and rent it soon and add it hear.

Again Feel free to add or comment.


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« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2005, 04:52:28 AM »

My continnuing updates on the Spaghetti Western list for Leone Lover''s. I've tweeked the list a bit putting Run Man Run last. I suppose this can go on as I watch and re-watch the collection, lol.

I also re-watched "A Bullet For The General" (1967)again and was impressed anew. This Damiani film is very well made and deserves all the kudo's it gets. The train ambush sequences at the beginning are top notch. You really get the feeling of helplessness since the train is stopped in a steep railroad cut and they (in the train) can't see their attackers as they look up.

It has other details that pop out for instance when they finally aquire a machine gun that uses 25 shot horizontal clips they show Volonte actually preparing the clip by dripping oil over it before he inserts it into the gun, looks like the real McCoy and that they are firing live rounds. Kinsky could have been used more, but its not much to quibble about.

Once you get around hearing Volonte and Kinsky with different dubbers this film grows on you.

Why Damiani didn't make another western immediatly after is perplexing, he did put an entry into the comedy phase in 1975 called a "A Genius, Two Partners, and a Dupe". that I may just have to check out based on ABFTG.

A new updates since I''ve seen "Cemetery Without Crosses" and "Blindman".

The "A" list so far in decending order:

The Big Gundown
The Mercenary
Companero''s
Death Rides A Horse
Day Of Anger
A Bullet For The General
Face To Face
The Great Silence
Keoma
Tepepa
Blindman
Run Man Run

The "B" List (worthy efforts):

A Man Called Sledge
A Minute To Pray A Second to Die
Mannaja A Man Called Blade
Cemetery Without Crosses.

The not sure if they are classified as Spaghetti Westerns but likely Euro Westerns shot in Almeria List:

Red Sun
Shalako
100 Rifles

More to come here.

To Stay away from List:

El Condor
Django
Navajo Joe
Captain Apache (the worst so far)
A Bullet For Sandoval (VHS)

*This list could probably go up into the 100''s but I''m not going to be inclined to watching many off the wall SW''s, if you drop in on the SW''s board you''ll hear about a lot of obscure titles. My local rental store has  a VHS of LVC''s "Bad Man''s River", I''ll probably break down and rent it soon and add it hear.

Again Feel free to add or comment.

« Last Edit: February 03, 2005, 05:14:09 AM by cigar joe » Logged

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« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2005, 07:15:47 AM »

Didn't see the movie yet, but I like the song:  Navajo Joe ... ahhha ahhaaaaa Navajo Joe ahhaaaaaaaa  Grin

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« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2005, 10:18:07 AM »

The "A" list so far in decending order:

The Big Gundown
The Mercenary
Companero''s
Death Rides A Horse
Day Of Anger
A Bullet For The General
Face To Face
The Great Silence
Keoma
Tepepa
Blindman
Run Man Run

The "B" List (worthy efforts):

A Man Called Sledge
A Minute To Pray A Second to Die
Mannaja A Man Called Blade
Cemetery Without Crosses.

The not sure if they are classified as Spaghetti Westerns but likely Euro Westerns shot in Almeria List:

Red Sun
Shalako
100 Rifles

More to come here.

To Stay away from List:

El Condor
Django
Navajo Joe
Captain Apache (the worst so far)
A Bullet For Sandoval (VHS)

Again Feel free to add or comment.


CJ, that's an awfully heavy dosage of spags  Shocked  Do you notice your brains turning into syrup yet?

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« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2005, 03:44:33 PM »

About "Navajo Joe", Danny, if you are at all familiar with the various Native American cultures and artifacts you'll know right away that Corbucci didn't know squat, his set designer and costumer didn't know squat, and Bert Reynolds who should have known better didn't know squat. If Bert had taken Corbucci aside like Clint did supposedly with Leone and exorcised pages of script and had put a little reality input in the project, maybe it would be more watchable.

I supposed to be fair, the original intended audience didn't know squat either, lol.


General, as far as brains turning to syrup, lol, not yet, there are some great details that you miss if you don't keep re-viewing these films.

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« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2005, 12:27:45 AM »

Again Joe, I did'n't see the film yet, it's only the song.
When I hear it in the morning it's in my head the whole day. Wink

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