30 Westerns in Once

[dave jenkins]

Frayling and others would have us believe that the talk about coffee between Cheyenne and Jill is a reference. I don't believe that it is a specific reference, but may allude to American Westerns in general. If you look at Westerns made in the U.S., especially in the 50s, you will find any number of them with coffee drinking scenes. This can be because coffee drinking was an important cultural activity of the 50s (and this at a time before Starbuck's and the like, when coffee making and coffee drinking were almost the same thing), but also, given the need in stories for characters to huddle about the fire while talking, a convenient bit of business to occupy the actors with.

Last night, while rewatching 7 Men From Now, I was struck by how much coffee drinking is done there. The opening scene has Randolf Scott swilling the black beverage before gunning down his two hosts. Later, in the company of Gail Russell and her husband, Scott gets several cups of joe over the space of a few days. Then there is a scene where Lee Marvin comes in out of the rain to needle Scott about Russell and give everyone generally a bad time. As he leers at Russell, Marvin says something like "Great cup of coffee, ma'am." The scene ends with violence (could coffee have something to do with death?)

I am not suggesting that the coffee drinking in OUATITW references what is done in 7MFN; I just offer that picture as an example of the many Westerns of the period that featured the use of the stimulant. I don't think SL and his screenwriters had any particular film in mind when they worked Cheyenne's coffee comments into the script. They just knew that in order to be true to the spirit of an American Western, they had to have some coffee drinking in their film.

[marmota-b]

(could coffee have something to do with death?)

Think about the scene in FFDM, where Manco is preparing coffee (I suppose), but lets the mug drop and shoots the three Indio's men...

I agree that the coffee drinking probably wasn't a reference, just a way of having the right Western feel.
And I guess I would add such a scene to my story myself, without knowing much about how the coffee is used in AW's. Just to have the heroes doing something while they are talking.

[dave jenkins]

Think about the scene in FFDM, where Manco is preparing coffee (I suppose), but lets the mug drop and shoots the three Indio's men...

Yeah, no doubt about it, that black stuff is dangerous...

[poderator]

I cannot believe I missed this sequence of the movie: Harmonica is ready to leave McBain farm and after "someday"moment,  we can see railroad workers all around McBain farm. Among many, two guys are digging that  tree stump, just like Shane and Joe. This is certainly direct quote from the movie "Shane". But sequence is very short (unusual for Leone ) and I somehow missed it!

[dave jenkins]

I missed it too, apparently. Thanks, I'll check that out.

AMC had "Night Passage" on last Saturday and I saw parts of it. A really bad film. The beginning has Stewart playing his accordion during which a fight breaks out, and afterwards he explains that he must have squeezed out some wrong notes. This might, just might, be referenced by Cheyenne in OUATITW when he warns Harmonica to watch those false notes. Interestingly, that first scene is set among a rail gang at the forward edge of a new train line.

Also saw "Last Train From Gun Hill" (1959) which Frayling thinks "West" cites. I didn't really see anything in it that reminded me of Leone (the objection to the new step-mother is a pretty conventional element). Perhaps the moment when Carolyn Jones steps down from the train is reflected in Claudia's arrival in Flagstone . . . Most of the film is a lot like "3:10 to Yuma" (1957), it has the same ridiculous plot about a guy holed up with a desperado in a hotel room waiting to catch a train. "3:10 "is most definitely quoted in "West" (Franks deadly walk on the streets of Flagstone draws from it), but since "3:10" preceded "Last Train" LT was pretty much just ripping it off. Maybe a couple of the shots showing guys on the roofs of the buildings around the hotel getting picked off inspired the similar stunts in OUATITW.....But 3:10 has that kind of thing too.......

[dave jenkins]

Just reviewed Peacemaker's comments in the "Night Passage" thread, to wit:

There were even some parallels between this and OUATITW such as a musical instrument to bring back memories to a bad person, railroad baron traveling everywhere in the comfort of his private car, even the bad guy tries to kill a kid  ( the bullet strikes the kid in the arm, but the point is, he tried. that never happens in AWs ).

These are astute observations, and I'm now convinced that something of "Night Passage" lives on in OUATITW.

[The Peacemaker]

AMC had "Night Passage" on last Saturday and I saw parts of it. A really bad film.

Really?

I enjoyed it very much. One of my favorite AWs.

[Groggy]

I don't think it was mentioned yet, but Frayling says the scene with the dollar in the shot glass comes from "Two Rode Together" (rather than "Gunfight at OK Corral" as stated earlier).

Also, thinking about it, the end scene where Cheyenne/Harmonica leave is DEFINITELY based on "The Searchers", it's done differently but the two gunslingers who have no place in a domestic environment leaving - yeah, that sounds about right to me.

[cigar joe]

Just saw another possible reference last night a modern day Western film starring Kirk Douglas called "Ace in The Hole", its about a down and out washed up newspaper reporter who is towed in his broken down convertible into Albuquerque, New Mexico. He goes into a local newspaper office to look for a job as a reporter. When he meets the editor he sees that he's wearing a belt & suspenders and Douglas makes the comment (similar to Fonda's in OUTITW) to the editor about him not trusting anything.

Story is about a man trapped in a cave and Douglas manufactures the story to get back into the big time, it was a pretty good flick.

[dave jenkins]

Also, thinking about it, the end scene where Cheyenne/Harmonica leave is DEFINITELY based on "The Searchers", it's done differently but the two gunslingers who have no place in a domestic environment leaving - yeah, that sounds about right to me.

SL's "door motif" comes from The Searchers also. Famously. at the end of Ford's film, the cabin door swings shut, indicating Ethan Edward's exclusion from the society within. SL empties the image of symbolic content (I think), and then runs variations on doors swinging, mostly for dramatic effect, throughout OUATITW (in a variety of settings: Cattle Corner station, the trading post, Sweetwater ranch, etc.) SL resumes the practice with OUATIA, where the swinging door motif just may have been re-invested with thematic significance (the back door at Moe's, the door on the clock in Moe's back room, the door of the crypt, the choice of doors Deborah offers to Noodles at their last interview, the secret door Secretary Bailey opens for Noodles, etc.).

[Groggy]

Just saw another possible reference last night a modern day Western film starring Kirk Douglas called "Ace in The Hole", its about a down and out washed up newspaper reporter who is towed in his broken down convertible into Albuquerque, New Mexico. He goes into a local newspaper office to look for a job as a reporter. When he meets the editor he sees that he's wearing a belt & suspenders and Douglas makes the comment (similar to Fonda's in OUTITW) to the editor about him not trusting anything.

Story is about a man trapped in a cave and Douglas manufactures the story to get back into the big time, it was a pretty good flick.

Already been noted, but thanks anyway.

[cigar joe]

I missed that one 

[Cusser]

"Ace in the Hole" sometimes goes by the name "The Big Carnival", same film.

[dave jenkins]

Johnny Guitar: The Dancing Kid and his gang enters

[moviesceleton]

Johnny Guitar: The Dancing Kid and his gang enters

You mean the entrance of Cheyenne's gang is a reference to that scene?