30 Westerns in Once

[The Peacemaker]

Seriously doubt it's a direct reference, but I watched "Doctor Zhivago" again today and I noticed a crane shot pretty much identical to one in OUATITW.  When Zhivago is captured by the Red Partisans and they ride off into the forest, the camera pans up slowly as the music reaches a climax to reveal a simply huge forest.  Reminded me of the crane shot revealing Flagstone in OUATITW.  I'm not saying it's a reference, but I found it interesting that the two shots in question were practically identical. 

Also, during the massacre of the White soldiers in the field, the panning down of the camera until the machine gun barrel pops into frame also reminded me of Leone, GBU in particular, with guns suddenly sliding into frame.  If you've seen "Zhivago" and GBU you know what I mean.  Again, I doubt it's a reference, but it's a neat thing to pick up on.

I noticed the gun sliding into frame shot, but it certainly wasn't a reference.

[Groggy]

I noticed the gun sliding into frame shot, but it certainly wasn't a reference.

Right, it's similar but not a reference.  I'm not trying to diminish Leone or argue that he's beholden to Lean, but it's interesting to see that these two directors used a lot of the same techniques.  Some of it was probably intentional homage, a lot of it probably wasn't (after all both were directors of films on an epic scale; also, both were huge fans of John Ford).

Not sure about the massacre in DYS being Lean-esque though, I can't think of anything Lean did that reminds me of that.

[dave jenkins]

It's difficult to watch Lawrence and not think of Leone, especially with its use of trains and Spanish desert locations.

For me, the movie that comes to mind more often than not is DYS. I was watching the second half of Lean's epic last night (that Superbit DVD sure looks good) and one scene had me suddenly sitting upright in my chair. It's the scene between Arthur Kennedy (playing the journalist "Bently," who of course is really Lowell Thomas) and Ali (Omar Sharrif), which contains this exchange:

[Kennedy is looking at a primer called The Little Citizen, opened to the chapter "Our Parliament." Apparently he has found it among Ali's possessions. Ali enters.]

A: It is for children. I have set myself to learn again.
B: What are you learning from this?
A: Politics.
B: You gonna have a democracy in this country? You gonna have a parliament?
A: I will tell you that when I have a country.
B: [laughter]
A: Did I answer well?
B: You answered without saying anything. That's politics. [beat] You learn quickly.
A: I have a good teacher.
B: Yeah. [beat] Yeah.

I note that this occurs during a respite in a military campaign, that a book on politics is the occasion for an exchange on politics, that this occurs in almost the center of the film, that it highlights one of the film's main themes. I submit that it is the model for a similar exchange between John and Juan in DYS........

[The Peacemaker]

I note that this occurs during a respite in a military campaign, that a book on politics is the occasion for an exchange on politics, that this occurs in almost the center of the film, that it highlights one of the film's main themes. I submit that it is the model for a similar exchange between John and Juan in DYS........

You mean when Juan says all that stuff about revolutions and how the peasants end up dead and John is reading a book that he tosses into the mud called " The Patriotism "?

[dave jenkins]

Exactly.

[The Peacemaker]

Exactly.

Isn't " The Patriotism " a goofed translation of " The Patriot "?

[dave jenkins]

Although I've never read Bakunin, I understand that the title of his book could be translated "Patriotism" or "On Patriotism" or "Letters on Patriotism." Famously, SL's use of the title "The Patriotism" is a gaff, appropriate, perhaps, for a film called "Duck, You Sucker." Unhappily, Leone thought he knew more about English than he really did.

[Groggy]

I can see that, and it's an interesting point that I hadn't thought of before.

[The Peacemaker]

I can see that, and it's an interesting point that I hadn't thought of before.

Groggy, what happened to your cigar?                      

[Groggy]

Which cigar?

Anyway Dave, I'll try to watch DYS again soon, so I'll be more able to comment then.  And of course there's the Villista's attack on the train (when Juan and John are on), which has to be a reference to "Lawrence" even if Leone won't admit it (and the scenes aren't particularly similar).

I would definitely love to see what Lean would've done with a Western - it would at least be worth a look IMO.  Lean, Freddie A. Young, and Maurice Jarre on a Western would be something. 

[The Peacemaker]

Which cigar?

The cigar on your icon, it's not animated anymore.

[Groggy]

The cigar on your icon, it's not animated anymore.

I don't recall that it ever was.  In any case it's not my picture, it was posted on the avatar's thread, so whoever created it would be responsible.

[The Peacemaker]

I don't recall that it ever was.  In any case it's not my picture, it was posted on the avatar's thread, so whoever created it would be responsible.

Don't you remember? Yesterday there was smoke coming out of the cigar.

[Groggy]

Are you confusing me with The Smoker?  Honestly I don't remember my avatar ever being animated.

[The Peacemaker]

Are you confusing me with The Smoker?  Honestly I don't remember my avatar ever being animated.

It was yesterday! Have I gone crazy?