30 Westerns in Once

[The Peacemaker]

There was another analogue (note I don't say "reference") between "Zhivago" and OUATITW that I noticed recently.  The scene where Komarovsky finds Lara's mother poisoned and rushes through the house to write a letter and find help, etc., has a tracking shot following his movements through the house, etc., from the outside, even when he isn't visible (through the windows).  I was watching that scene and I thought "now where have I seen this before?" and it finally dawned on me after about a minute that I was thinking of the aftermath of the shootout on Morton's train with Frank walking through the train.  Now it wasn't exactly the same and again I doubt it was a direct reference (I'd bet that's a copied shot from an older film) but again, I found it interesting to see such a similar shot in the two movies.

It's not a reference. I highly doubt Leone made any references to Lean's films, except maybe Bridge on the River Kwai in GBU.

[Kurugen]

i think i see 1 reference.This has proably already been metioned but that one guys rilfe in the beganing.The sawed off one looks like the gun from that one Steve Mcqueen show.

[Groggy]

It's not a reference. I highly doubt Leone made any references to Lean's films, except maybe Bridge on the River Kwai in GBU.

Well I agree with Dave that DYS probably took a great deal from LoA, but overall I agree with you.  The crane shot and the shot I just mentioned were probably taken from other films ("Gone With The Wind", etc.), as I know Lean referenced a lot of Russian films in "Zhivago" (like "Alexander Nevsky" and "Battleship Potemkin").

And Kurugen, that's "Wanted: Dead or Live". 

[The Peacemaker]

DYS probably took a great deal from LoA,

You think so? I'll be seeing the movie in two weeks from yesterday so then I can give my opinion. DYS that is, LoA I already saw twice.

[Groggy]

Well read some of DJ's posts above, he mentioned the scene with Arthur Kennedy and Omar Sharif as resembling the Juan/Sean discussion about "revolution".  In terms of dialogue it isn't very similar, but the setting, etc., is certainly similar, though you can disagree.  DYS borrows more thematically from LoA than in terms of literal scenes, the political aspects especially.  The train attack scene put me in mind of the ones in LoA; though it isn't exactly the same, it's hard to think Leone wasn't thinking of Lean's film when he did that.

[The Peacemaker]

Well read some of DJ's posts above, he mentioned the scene with Arthur Kennedy and Omar Sharif as resembling the Juan/Sean discussion about "revolution".  In terms of dialogue it isn't very similar, but the setting, etc., is certainly similar, though you can disagree.  DYS borrows more thematically from LoA than in terms of literal scenes, the political aspects especially.  The train attack scene put me in mind of the ones in LoA; though it isn't exactly the same, it's hard to think Leone wasn't thinking of Lean's film when he did that.

The train attacks were done too differently IMO to be any kind of reference. I remember in DYS that they used a truck to block the train, and it was near a station. Unlike LoA when Lawrence destroys the tracks leading to that cool train wreck ( that train must've had some impact on the ground, if you look carefully when the train hits the ground the camera jolts ).

[Groggy]

Can we agree that the possibility of LoA references in DYS isn't any more spurious than some of the purported "references" in OUATITW? 

[The Peacemaker]

Can we agree that the possibility of LoA references in DYS isn't any more spurious than some of the purported "references" in OUATITW? 

I can definitely agree. 

[dave jenkins]

Maybe the term "reference" is what is hanging people up here. When I think of a director referencing the work of another, I imagine that he copies a set-up expecting some of his audience to recognize the original model. This is clearly what SL was about in OUATITW. In his other films, however, he may have only wanted to use shots that worked particularly well in other films for entirely utilitarian reasons, without regard to whether an audience would recognize a reference or not. It's possible SL may not even have wanted people to think of other films when watching his (again, excepting OUATITW). Still, you can't help noticing that sometimes SL seemed to have been inspired by shots in earlier works, perhaps even unconciously. The way in which the Bakunin scene in DYS mirrors the book-reading scene in LoA is striking. In both cases men are in camp, reclining, taking a respite from a military campaign. In both cases a book about politics is the occasion for a discussion about politics. I would not say that DYS is "referencing" LoA here, but I think it would have been unlikely for SL to do his scene the way he does had he not first seen Lean's.

[cigar joe]

I've notice quotes from previous westerns in GBU, don't know if they were intentional (like OUAITW) or not, a two that come to mind are the coyote cry from Red River, the quote from Yellow Sky that its "70 miles to town" across the salt pan. There are others for sure, I think we mentioned them earlier in the thread.

[Groggy]

The "coyote howl" has been around forever, I've heard it in numerous Westerns, plus one of the "Metal Gear Solid" Playstation games. 

[cigar joe]

I wonder if that coyote howl is a "stock" sound 

[Groggy]

Maybe the term "reference" is what is hanging people up here. When I think of a director referencing the work of another, I imagine that he copies a set-up expecting some of his audience to recognize the original model. This is clearly what SL was about in OUATITW. In his other films, however, he may have only wanted to use shots that worked particularly well in other films for entirely utilitarian reasons, without regard to whether an audience would recognize a reference or not. It's possible SL may not even have wanted people to think of other films when watching his (again, excepting OUATITW). Still, you can't help noticing that sometimes SL seemed to have been inspired by shots in earlier works, perhaps even unconciously. The way in which the Bakunin scene in DYS mirrors the book-reading scene in LoA is striking. In both cases men are in camp, reclining, taking a respite from a military campaign. In both cases a book about politics is the occasion for a discussion about politics. I would not say that DYS is "referencing" LoA here, but I think it would have been unlikely for SL to do his scene the way he does had he not first seen Lean's.

I agree, and that's why I was careful to stipulate "analogues" in my latest post.  The train attack scenes in LoA and DYS are very different, but it's hard to think Leone wasn't thinking of LoA when he did it.

[cigar joe]

dave you should update this topic to correct, add, etc., to the list to get an up to date consensus, if you are up for it. 

[archangel]

I wonder if that coyote howl is a "stock" sound 

no, it's not.