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Author Topic: 2 dusters, not 3....  (Read 15373 times)
Dlanor
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« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2004, 05:34:09 AM »

Harmonica said the bullets were in the men, not in the dusters.
Woody Strode simply left his duster away and maybe Harmonica saw it. Or maybe Harmonica used  the word "duster" as a Nickname to design the members of Frank crew, as the dusters were their mark.
 In France we call the "Tedy Boys"," the Black bomber jackets": "Les blousons noirs". When we speak about a Black Bomber Jacket, we don't refer to the black bomber jacket in itself but to the man who belong to the gang. Even if is not  currently wearing his bomber , he is still a Teddy boy (black bomber jacket).

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Denys
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« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2004, 07:04:07 AM »

Well, in the italian version, where many shots aren't cue and cut at the same place, we can clearly see Woody Strode tying his duster on the saddle of his horse and then heading back to wait Harmonica. Et Voila! L'enigme est résolue!!

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« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2004, 11:27:44 AM »

none of this technically implies or states that he saw three men wearing three dusters with three bullets in them... he just stated that three men wore three dusters, which they did, which he or anyone could obviously tell...

I agree with you in principal, but who's to say that he didn't just like to put the duster over his horse's rear when it got cold?  Grin

and strode doesn't look out of place... sure he's a black hired gun and isn't wearing his duster at the time of the showdown... but it still works.

But it would have looked SO MUCH better if all three had 'em on, in my opinion.  And apparently in a lot of studio exec's opinion's as well, or why would all of the posters & literature have all three with dusters? Grin

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grandpa_chum
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« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2004, 09:47:46 PM »

first off they only wore the dusters for that one day... they were posing as cheyennes men when they were clearly franks... so to say he just liked to warm is horses ass is ridiculous... and i guess he could have just carried it and never wore it... but thats not the point... point is the movie is damn near flawless

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Frank: Just a man.
Harmonica: An ancient race...
dave jenkins
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« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2004, 10:50:39 PM »

first off they only wore the dusters for that one day... they were posing as cheyennes men when they were clearly franks...  point is the movie is damn near flawless
Then, why did Strode take his duster off? Since the plan was to put the blame on Cheyenne's men by wearing the dusters, the point of wearing the dusters was TO WEAR THE DUSTERS. Strode is rather casual about this. He doesn't seem very concerned about following Frank's plan. Makes you kind of wonder if he's ever even *heard* of Frank (or has read beyond the first 10 pages of the screenplay).

As for this being a perfect movie, I seem to remember something about a continuity problem involving the scene with Jill and Frank at the ranch, the cut to the Navajo cliffs, and then the cut to the bedroom scene with Frank.....

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« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2004, 04:06:17 AM »

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Then, why did Strode take his duster off? Since the plan was to put the blame on Cheyenne's men by wearing the dusters, the point of wearing the dusters was TO WEAR THE DUSTERS. Strode is rather casual about this. He doesn't seem very concerned about following Frank's plan. Makes you kind of wonder if he's ever even *heard* of Frank (or has read beyond the first 10 pages of the screenplay).

Well, Dave,  I could venture to guess that the dusters served there purpose since they were worn when Strode, Elam and Mulock came into the stationmasters shack and did their buisness with him. He would blame it on Cheyenne since they left him and the squaw alive. Harmonica was supposed to be shot down and his killing was to be blamed on Cheyenne's men by the stationmaster, no? So it wouldn't matter if any of them wore the dusters confronting Bronson.

On the other hand, Harmonica was supposed to be meeting Frank's men and not Cheyenne's so them wearing the dusters would have tipped off Harmonica that something was wrong....

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grandpa_chum
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« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2004, 01:02:13 AM »

well harmonica didn't know anything about cheyennes men... so them wearing dusters wouldn't have thrown anything off for him... not until after franks men didn't suceed in killing him of course.

and jenkins... my god!... is everyone crazy! does anyone else seriously think that 2 men wearing dusters and a 3rd carrying his does not competently carry out the plan of blaming harmonicas murder on cheyenne?!... hell look at the mcbain massacre... no one even saw them in their dusters and lived to talk about it and they still successfully pinned that one on cheyenne by leaving a piece of duster behind.... GET YOUR HEADS OUT OF THE SAND PEOPLE... THIS IS THE TOWN SHERRIFF NOT AN FBI STAKEOUT!

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Harmonica: So, you're not a businessman after all.
Frank: Just a man.
Harmonica: An ancient race...
cigar joe
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« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2004, 04:23:17 AM »

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On the other hand, Harmonica was supposed to be meeting Frank's men and not Cheyenne's so them wearing the dusters would have tipped off Harmonica that something was wrong....


I'll stand corrected....it wouldn't have mattered what they wore then if Harmonica wasn't aware of Cheyenne or his gang. But it does make for a memorable line.

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« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2004, 11:20:59 AM »

actually you don't really need to stand corrected... you are right... but only after harmonica gets away and realizes that cheyenne's gang wears the dusters... that actually does tip him off that something is wrong and that frank really was the one that massacred the mcbain family and that cheyenne is clean in that respect

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Frank: Just a man.
Harmonica: An ancient race...
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« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2004, 03:09:24 PM »

As for this being a perfect movie, I seem to remember something about a continuity problem involving the scene with Jill and Frank at the ranch, the cut to the Navajo cliffs, and then the cut to the bedroom scene with Frank.....

One of the people on the DVD commentary mentioned this supposed continuity error.  But, if you look closely at the background in the "bedroom" scene, it does look like it's a "cave", so I don't think there is an error.  I guess Frank likes his comfort even in his temporary hideouts.

I take it that the three were wearing dusters because they were late getting to the Mcbain ranch with Frank.  I think the commentary also pointed out the train was late as is indicated on the chalkboard in the station.

Perfect movie...? pretty damn close.

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« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2004, 03:20:08 PM »

Maybe HARMONICA didn't get off the train.....Maybe he was hiding in the distance.....Maybe he saw three men arrive in dusters.....Maybe he trailed em' fer' days/hours before they arrived at the station.....Maybe.....maybe..... Roll Eyes

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« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2004, 04:32:46 PM »

One of the people on the DVD commentary mentioned this supposed continuity error.  But, if you look closely at the background in the "bedroom" scene, it does look like it's a "cave", so I don't think there is an error.  I guess Frank likes his comfort even in his temporary hideouts.

Perfect movie...? pretty damn close.

It's not the locations that I have a problem with, it's the sequence of events: Jill is looking for the model sign that says "Station" when Frank hands it to her. The implication is that she is now in his power. So, what does Frank do with the opportunity? He immediately goes to the Navajo Cliffs so he can humiliate Morton! Only later do we see him in bed with Jill (possibly in one of the caves in the cliffs). And this follows another intervening scene (the one where Harmonica and Cheyenne start laying out Sweetwater). It has taken Frank 3 scenes after capturing Jill to get her into bed! Unbelievable! No story logic can account for this, but a continuity error could.

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« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2004, 10:58:18 PM »

It's not the locations that I have a problem with, it's the sequence of events: Jill is looking for the model sign that says "Station" when Frank hands it to her. The implication is that she is now in his power. So, what does Frank do with the opportunity? He immediately goes to the Navajo Cliffs so he can humiliate Morton! Only later do we see him in bed with Jill (possibly in one of the caves in the cliffs). And this follows another intervening scene (the one where Harmonica and Cheyenne start laying out Sweetwater). It has taken Frank 3 scenes after capturing Jill to get her into bed! Unbelievable! No story logic can account for this, but a continuity error could.

Dave, Dave... i hate to continue the theme here... but I disagree completely and passionately... although respectably this time...

... it all makes sense to me and i see no continuity problem... Frank tells his men or morton or whoever to meet him at the navajo cliffs... Frank gets Jill... Frank is talking with morton at the navajo cliffs, actually discussing jill's fate, while obviously jill is being held by some baddie at the cliffs... Jill and frank then have their little bed scene, which is obviously not the bed from the sweetwater ranch... we all know that... Intercut with harmonica and cheyenne laying out sweetwater unaware that jill has been hijacked... what is the error there...

... this is in my opinion not only the best movie of all time... but also one of the most flawless; technically, dramatically, and atmospherically.

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Frank: Just a man.
Harmonica: An ancient race...
cigar joe
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« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2004, 06:49:01 AM »

Yea Dave I got to kind of agree with g_c there, I don't see any problem with the senario the way he layed it out.

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« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2004, 08:42:33 AM »

Dave, Dave... i hate to continue the theme here... but I disagree completely and passionately... although respectably this time...

... it all makes sense to me and i see no continuity problem... Frank tells his men or morton or whoever to meet him at the navajo cliffs... Frank gets Jill... Frank is talking with morton at the navajo cliffs, actually discussing jill's fate, while obviously jill is being held by some baddie at the cliffs... Jill and frank then have their little bed scene, which is obviously not the bed from the sweetwater ranch... we all know that... Intercut with harmonica and cheyenne laying out sweetwater unaware that jill has been hijacked... what is the error there...

... this is in my opinion not only the best movie of all time... but also one of the most flawless; technically, dramatically, and atmospherically.



Grandpa_chum i could not be in greater agreement with you, this film, as far as i can see, is flawless, the only flaws that people can highlight are in the old yankee versions when they cut out 20 minutes which made the story make no sense. However davejenkins has a point, ive never worked out why that love scene comes later than the 'station' thing.

The point is that leone's lyrical sweep means that little details like that dont matter...as a viewer you're completely convinced by Leone's whole message.

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