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Author Topic: Tombstone (1993)  (Read 15394 times)
dave jenkins
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« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2006, 10:20:34 AM »


We could probably do a whole thread on Wyatt Earp/OK Corral based films.


I'd like to see a mini-series TV version of the story. Most films have the famous shoot-out as the climax of the conflict; Hour of the Gun begins with it and showed the aftermath. It would be good to combine all parts of the narrative in one long cycle, something impossible to do in a feature film.

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« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2006, 05:32:13 PM »

I will say for the record that I liked "Wyatt Earp", but I will agree it's much too long.  The OK Corral gunfight was probably the most accurate of all the versions I've seen (though I prefer Tombstone's version for entertainment value), though the film isn't as accurate as it's made it out to be.  Kevin Costner is a much better Earp than Kurt Russell, and Dennis Quaid gives Val Kilmer a run for his money as Doc.

As I've said before, I don't really care for "My Darling Clementine".  Good acting for the most part (particularly Fonda and Brennan) and a few good scenes, but nothing terribly impressive.  I will however try to watch it again sometime.

"Gunfight At The OK Corral" is a reasonably entertaining Western with a great cast, but it's not very high on my list.  I found the musical score/commentary annoying, to say the least.

I've not seen "Hour of the Gun" or "Doc".

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dave jenkins
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« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2006, 11:25:07 AM »



As I've said before, I don't really care for "My Darling Clementine".  Good acting for the most part (particularly Fonda and Brennan) and a few good scenes, but nothing terribly impressive.  I will however try to watch it again sometime.
The best argument I know for "My Darling Clementine"  being Ford's best picture is "My Darling Clementine" itself. Groggy, watch this film 10 more times and report back. It has so much going for it: not just the acting, not just the writing, not just the noir-like cinematography (by the great Joe MacDonald), not just the presence of Linda Darnell . . . well, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, as they say, so please chow down soon. (BTW, I prefer the pre-release version that has less of the music Zanuck insisted on using; Ford was onto something with that spare soundtrack idea).

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« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2006, 09:20:49 AM »

Another film loosely based on the Earp brothers (very loosely based) is Samuel Fuller's Forty Guns. Intead of Pa Clanton, however, you get Barbara Stanwyck, and thus, a love story . . . Still, some great images and in 'scope. SL learned a few tricks from this one.

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« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2006, 05:08:53 PM »

Wasn't "Warlock" supposed to be a version of the Earp story?  At least, that's what I'd heard. . .

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« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2006, 09:17:36 AM »

It has the fearless-lawman-turned-hired-gun angle, but little else in common with the Earps. Forty Guns actually has 3 brothers, one of whom who gets gunned down, etc.

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« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2006, 11:30:53 AM »

I saw "My Darling Clementine" during the night I spent at Goulding's Lodge... Which is  (a few of us know it) the Lodge of Monument Valley. This is why I'll never be objective about this movie: I was too euphoric Roll Eyes

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« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2006, 08:07:32 AM »

Time to resurrect this thread.

I had a Best Buy card that I got from purchasing a monitor a few months ago so I was in the store the yesterday an picked up Tombstone, as part of the Western collection I'm building.

Anyway sat down and watched this again last night and its a pretty good actioner if thats all you are interested in. It is a bit dialogue driven rather than a visual image story and it does dwell a bit too much on the women (I guess its a trade mark of modern film). All of that could have been implied and didn't have to be spelled out. Though I do think that "Big Nose Kate" should have got a much bigger role.

Since it is based on historical figures you are going to have to deal with some sort of biographical accuracy so that may have been a consideration too. But there you have different interpretations of the story also.

All the above combines into less Iconic characters.

As soon as you mention Wyatt Earp - Doc Holliday (Iconic Western names from long before motion pictures) you have all this historical & preconcieved baggage that goes along with them. It just doesn't or hasn't translated to film that well as of yet.

Take Col. Douglas Mortimer, dressed in black with his arsonal of weapons,  loosely based on what we think of when we think of the Earps, he becomes lightyears more Iconic a film charater than any depiction of the Earps or Doc Holliday has been yet . I would almost venture to say that you could make a more iconic film about Holliday since less is known or has been filmed about him.

The set looked great, and it looked a lot like some photos I've seen of Tombstone circa 1879. The only difference was the main street should have been even wider. Costumes were accurate looking also, though The Earp brothers hats maybe should have had better broken in crowns rather than the rounded "just out of the hat box" tops they sported, they looked more like preachers hats IMO, lol.

As anybody who has worn a cowboy hat or any big brimmed hat for that matter knows you naturally take it off by pinching the crown, and not by taking it off by brim (you don't muss up your hair nearly as much that way, ;-)). They should have looked a bit broken in IMO.  I though that Henry Fonda's Hat in "My Darling Clemetine" was equally goofy looking.

Val Kilmer's Doc was believeable in this, he shines and did a great job portraying a "lunger". I've always had a theory that goes something like this, here is a guy dying of tuberculosis with no future nothing to live for so why not try to go out quickly with a bullet instead (and I think that's sort of what the film was alluding to during his death scene where he thinks its funny that he's dying with his boots off) and this attitude would of course give him an edge over all of his opponents since he wouldn't care and have no fear about dying.

Kurt Russel is equally good as Wyatt, and Sam Elliott as Virgil. Bill Paxton is not that memorable, and what happened to James Earp?, he got left out of this depiction. Anybody recognize Billy Bob Thornton in this? He's a bit chubby and plays the bully faro dealer in the Oriental Saloon that Wyatt slaps around, lol.

Of the villains the Clanton's & McLowery's they are morphed into a gang of thugs called "The Cowboys" who all distinguish themselves from regular cowboys by wearing red sashes around their waists don't know if this is an actual fact or not, but its very Corbucci, lol. Any how in this flick Ike Clanton is depicted as the goof ball, while the real bad ass villians are Curley Bill Brocious (Powers Boothe), and Johnny Ringo (Michael Biehn) and to a lesser extent Billy Clanton (Thomas Hayden Church) They all should probably have gotten more screen time and get a bit more developed.

The score is forgetable also. Its kind of curious that no modern post Leone AW that I know of has given leitmotifs to different characters.

There are some bit parts for Charlton Heston, and Harry Carrey Jr., and a voice over by Robert Mitchum, I think it would have been better to feature them even more.

All in all its entertaining.

« Last Edit: November 12, 2006, 08:14:37 AM by cigar joe » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2006, 11:09:46 AM »

My sincere compliments for your lesson on hat's brim and crown.

But how do you explain that Hollywood friggers, after all the lessons they should have taken from SW's best practitioners, still goof on such particulars? Can't they afford an Old West expert? (And why don't you propose yourself?: I would, if I had your expertise).


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« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2006, 03:23:22 PM »

Quote
But how do you explain that Hollywood friggers, after all the lessons they should have taken from SW's best practitioners, still goof on such particulars?

I don't know maybe they were trying to achiveve a different look.

If you ever look at actual photographs from the old West everyone is wearing their hats pushed way back off their foreheads, so maybe you'd think that was the way they wore them... aaaaaaaahhhhhh (you mwould be wrong) ,....... no the photographer most likely told them to push their hats back for the photo, otherwise there would be a shadow over their faces, lol.

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« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2006, 03:33:02 PM »

I saw Tombstone a while back and I remember enjoying it. Val Kilmer was great as Doc Holliday, and Kurt Russell was good too.

The one problem I had with it was that there were too many romance scenes. I can understand one or two, but c'mon! It's a western, not a romance movie!

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« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2006, 03:42:18 PM »

Quote
I can understand one or two, but c'mon! It's a western, not a romance movie!


Exactly, we need some good ol' politically incorrect, non made by focus group Westerns. This Genre need to get its b*lls back, lol.

Can you imagine an SW with the line by Josephine (Dana Delaney) when she sees Wyatt for the first time "I want one of those", come on, lol

« Last Edit: November 12, 2006, 03:46:01 PM by cigar joe » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2006, 03:47:11 PM »



This Genre need to get its b*lls back, lol.

Exactly!

Westerns made now cater to the crappy B westerns of the 30's. I bet in the next western that comes out the hero will pull out a guitar and start singing to his sweetheart.  Roll Eyes

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« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2006, 03:47:20 AM »

 Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

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« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2006, 04:16:57 AM »

Well thinking about my statement above the film "The Proposition" fit the bill of the template we described, but it never got a decent release here, Whats up with that?

Why aren't these films getting released. I'm believing the theater chains are suspect.
 
Is the distrobution system in this country taken over by the puritains or the holy rollers?

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