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: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017  ( 25671 )
uncknown
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« #300 : April 15, 2018, 12:17:25 PM »

SO
can someone tell me how the hotel scene differs in the two versions?


"Other Morton's will come along  and they'll kill it off"

My article on the restoration of the The Big Gundown
http://thekinskifiles.blogspot.com/2009/01/cinemaretro-13-big-gundown.html
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« #301 : April 15, 2018, 12:37:20 PM »

That's the 1998 LD, which is essentially  .... for some reason, this LD includes the bit where Blondie holsters his pistol after he guns down the 3 bounty hunters who capture Tuco, whereas the DVD mysteriously does not. ......

I have a theory about that.
I believe that comes rght at the reel change (remember them?)
I remember seeing this in a theater that was playing a pretty beat up print and there was a skip where they changed reels.
SO, maybe they used a release print as the source of the home video version?
brm


"Other Morton's will come along  and they'll kill it off"

My article on the restoration of the The Big Gundown
http://thekinskifiles.blogspot.com/2009/01/cinemaretro-13-big-gundown.html
Lil Brutto
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« #302 : April 15, 2018, 02:37:32 PM »

I have a theory about that.
I believe that comes rght at the reel change (remember them?)
I remember seeing this in a theater that was playing a pretty beat up print and there was a skip where they changed reels.
SO, maybe they used a release print as the source of the home video version?
brm

You're correct about that scene coming at the reel change but it still doesn't explain why one format (98 LD) includes that footage but the other format (98 DVD) does not.

Here's a link to Jordan's site that compares the various versions of the hotel scene:

https://vimeo.com/221519241


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Jordan Krug
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« #303 : April 15, 2018, 07:45:11 PM »

SO
can someone tell me how the hotel scene differs in the two versions?

I can show you. Better than telling you.

https://vimeo.com/221519241

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« #304 : April 16, 2018, 12:51:44 AM »

Awesome! I didn't know you did all these comparisons.

I just watched several of your videos, I have a much better sense of what the original colors probably were. The whole "golden look" CJ and others have been talking about is way clearer now: it isn't the piss-yellow 2014 MGM 4K, while I get what they were doing, now. They needed to oversaturate a bit and protect the stuff you're always supposed to protect anyway (skies and, to a lesser extend, skin tones).

« : April 16, 2018, 12:58:28 AM noodles_leone »


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« #305 : April 16, 2018, 03:29:46 AM »

Wow, I didn't realise they'd fucked with it so much. Thanks for posting that. O0


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« #306 : April 16, 2018, 04:43:47 AM »

Long live your IB Tech print. The only real reference left it seems...



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« #307 : April 16, 2018, 08:27:50 AM »

Long live your IB Tech print. The only real reference left it seems...

Ah, I wish it were mine, but Lil Brutto here is the one with all the prints. We were willing to share the prints with Kino but they ignored our offer, then proceeded to belittle us when it was pointed out they had copied a dvd of the film instead of a print to recreate the 1967 cut. I should mention that any conclusions based on the research etc is a product of lots of back and forth discussions between Lil Brutto and I. I just happened to already have a blog. Also, most of the videos I posted for comparison purposes were not really meant to specifically judge colour, only the cuts themselves. But yes, the prints have a nice golden look with white teeth and blue skies. They LEAN towards green but nowhere near what the MGM 4K looks like. Kino did a terrible job trying to correct it, they needed to do it scene by scene but instead just used an overall fix on the entire thing.

« : April 16, 2018, 08:30:54 AM Jordan Krug »
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« #308 : April 16, 2018, 08:41:20 AM »

Ok... VIVA Lil !

yes, yes... I know the story. I stopped thinking too much about those things. I too try to help releases here and there,
but they all want to run their own show (messing things up)... What else can you do... (besides maybe starting a BD label).

I know your terrific comparison-videos don't cover the color-issues, yet the IB print
so much reminds me of the GBU 35mm theatrical screenings... Nice :).

I never knew the Paramount BD is missing shots from the opening scene
included in the German 35mm version! (which I saw at least 10 times over the years in cinema's !).
I only thought from time to time "wasn't there more screen time regarding Woody Strode & the drops of water ?".
At least that thought was right :).



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noodles_leone
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« #309 : April 16, 2018, 08:54:19 AM »

Kino did a terrible job trying to correct it, they needed to do it scene by scene but instead just used an overall fix on the entire thing.

I don't know how much they actually care, but in the end it's really a matter of budget. Colorists are really expensive... although with the IB print as a reference they could have an Intern on Premiere Pro do 90% of the film correctly in under a week.



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« #310 : April 16, 2018, 09:12:09 AM »

Ok... VIVA Lil !

yes, yes... I know the story. I stopped thinking too much about those things. I too try to help releases here and there,
but they all want to run their own show (messing things up)... What else can you do... (besides maybe starting a BD label).

I know your terrific comparison-videos don't cover the color-issues, yet the IB print
so much reminds me of the GBU 35mm theatrical screenings... Nice :).

I never knew the Paramount BD is missing shots from the opening scene
included in the German 35mm version! (which I saw at least 10 times over the years in cinema's !).
I only thought from time to time "wasn't there more screen time regarding Woody Strode & the drops of water ?".
At least that thought was right :).

Do any US versions have the correct music for the end of the movie i.e no CHEYENNE theme?


"Other Morton's will come along  and they'll kill it off"

My article on the restoration of the The Big Gundown
http://thekinskifiles.blogspot.com/2009/01/cinemaretro-13-big-gundown.html
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« #311 : April 16, 2018, 10:57:32 AM »

I should mention that any conclusions based on the research etc is a product of lots of back and forth discussions between Lil Brutto and I.

The great part is that the research continues! There's still much to learn about this film. In particular we have many unanswered questions about the Italian cut. Jordan and I are still trying to put together the pieces of a very complex puzzle that are the 2 documented versions of the Italian cut:

1) What version was shown during its initial 1966 theatrical release? Our 1966 Italian print indicates that it's not the version that's been available on home release (e.g. CVC DVD, Mondo BD, etc etc) in that country since the Italians restored the film around 2000.

2) There's also the enigmatic 1969 re-release version that we call the "censorship cut" because the film was apparently edited for violence to reduce the age restriction from 18 to 14. The sole source of info is that documented by the Italian censor board but it is inconsistent and confusing.

I can't speak for Jordan but I have an unsubstantiated theory that the 1969 censor cut is the same as the US theatrical/International cut based on clues from various sources. I won't elaborate because it's speculation at this point but our tireless/stubborn effort to shed more light on the history of this film will hopefully lead to a breakthrough.

As for the colours, Jordan already said that he wasn't focused on perfecting the color timing of the 35mm prints in his fantastic comparison videos. That remains to be done. However, it's pretty damn close to where it needs to be and is certainly gives you a good of how the film looked in theatres in the late 60s. Yes, there's some green and yellow in the image, as well as leathery (but not jaundiced) complexions and lots of blown out skies. NO green skies and NO green teeth!!

Cineteca di Bologna commissioned L'Immagine Ritrovata to restore the film around 2013-14 (Press release link: http://www.cinetecadibologna.it/areastampa/c_1175). This is the restoration seen on the 2014 MGM BD with the excess yellow/green cast. Yet last summer I came across a website that took high quality pics of an IB TECH print in Cineteca di Bologna's possession, which I presume served as a color reference for that restoration: http://zauberklang.ch/filmcolors/galleries/il-buono-il-brutto-il-cattivo-1966/

It sure doesn't look like the final product, does it? Yet it's quite consistent with our prints despite not being color corrected:



« : April 16, 2018, 11:02:28 AM Lil Brutto »

I was an honest farmer. Now I'm Lil Brutto!
uncknown
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« #312 : April 16, 2018, 02:52:50 PM »

You're correct about that scene coming at the reel change but it still doesn't explain why one format (98 LD) includes that footage but the other format (98 DVD) does not.

Here's a link to Jordan's site that compares the various versions of the hotel scene:

https://vimeo.com/221519241

Thanks!
Nice work J!

btw if you want to improve the picture of the Kino extended cut:
decrease color saturation
increase yellow tint (faces are burnt red)
increase brightness (indoor scenes are too dark)

I made a screen capture of my settings, although that might not be applicable to your monitor.

The 1998 MGM dvd and 2017 Kino US cut have good transfers. Remember no two prints are ever going to look exactly alike and everyone sees things through their own unique eyes!!!
bruce


"Other Morton's will come along  and they'll kill it off"

My article on the restoration of the The Big Gundown
http://thekinskifiles.blogspot.com/2009/01/cinemaretro-13-big-gundown.html
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