Sergio Leone Web Board
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 19, 2017, 11:03:47 PM
Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
News:


+  Sergio Leone Web Board
|-+  Films of Sergio Leone
| |-+  Other Films (Moderators: cigar joe, moviesceleton, Dust Devil)
| | |-+  Zapata Westerns
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Zapata Westerns  (Read 45419 times)
Groggy
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11458


This post gets Agnew's stamp of approval!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #60 on: October 12, 2007, 11:45:58 AM »

Well yeah, when one watches these movies you do get sick of seeing innumerable people lined up in front of firing squads. Grin

Logged


Saturday nights with Groggy
cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12679


easy come easy go


View Profile
« Reply #61 on: October 12, 2007, 03:17:42 PM »

Jill, You forgot the "romance of the sombreo" the fiestas that seem to be in ever present.  Cool

Logged

"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
The Firecracker
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9672


Rub me the wrong way, and I'll go off in your face


View Profile
« Reply #62 on: October 12, 2007, 04:37:39 PM »

I like the last scene.

The last scene made the movie for me.

CJ: "Wrath of God" may not be your cup of tea as it becomes increasingly ridiculous with each minute that goes by.
However I liked it a bunch. The final gunfight is worth the price of admission.

Logged



The Official COMIN' AT YA! re-release site
http://cominatyanoir3d.com/
Jill
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 989

This time I did


View Profile
« Reply #63 on: October 13, 2007, 03:53:56 AM »

Jill, You forgot the "romance of the sombreo" the fiestas that seem to be in ever present.  Cool

Oh, yes, the fiestas. Dancing and folk music.  Wink With bonfire and pretty Mexican girls dancing...

And the typical plot element: the gringo and the "good Mexican Rebel" double-crossing each other during the whole movie  Grin

Logged

"Does this unit have a soul?"
dave jenkins
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13683

"One banana, two banana, three banana, four...."


View Profile
« Reply #64 on: August 09, 2008, 03:38:59 PM »

Ok watched my DVD of "Viva Zapata" (1952) directed by Elia Kazan, screenplay by John Stienbeck, starring Marlon Brando, Anthony Quinn, Jean Peters, Joseph Wiseman.

If "Viva Villa" (1934)  was the blueprint for the "fun" Zapata Western, then the same could be said that "Viva Zapata" was the outline of the serious Zapata Western. So in these two films we have a ying/yang treatment of the MexRev.

This film is not played for any type of humor, its serious drama throughout and more indepthly character driven than the more lighthearted romp Viva Villa. You could almost sight the similar difference between GBU & OUTITW both epics but very different in tone. Both films take place during the similar time period of the MexRev during the overthrow of Diaz. While Viva Villa takes place in the north in Sonora, Viva Zapata is set in Morelos. Both films have very similar plots.

A group of peons have an audience with Diaz and explain that their corn fields have been fenced off from them and planted with cane. They have their deeds with them, Diaz says they must find their boundary stones they say they cannot access the land to find them because they will be arrested. One of the more outspoken peons is Zapata who realizes that Diaz won't help them, so he leads an issurection with his more fiery and slightly out of control brother played by Anthony Quinn. The battle scenes are well done. There is an attack on a train sequence where they load a flatcar with explosives and let bit roll into an approaching supply train. The general cinematography is good its B&W but you wish this film was shot in color. Again its far more serious than most Spaghetti Zapatas (which tend to lean towards characters that are caricatures), this film treats all subjects and relationships equally in manner, and again its dialogue driven rather than style driven.

Brando plays and looks like convincing peon, Anthony Quinn is also fantastic and even more convincing as Efumio Zapata his brother, Wiseman plays a newspaper man/political agitator who loyalty is mercurial, towards the end of the film he comes off as some kind of behind the scenes trator/manipulator. Jean Peters plays Zapata's love interest and eventual wife.
John McCain is a fan! Here he is in a recent interview about his pop culture tastes:

Quote
We read somewhere that Viva Zapata! is your favorite movie of all time...
Elia Kazan made three movies with Marlon Brando. One was A Streetcar Named Desire, one was On the Waterfront, and the third was Viva Zapata! Many people think Brando's performances in Streetcar and Waterfront were his best. I think Zapata! was his best. I'm in the minority about this. But go back and watch the scene of his wedding night, with [Brando] and Jean Peters — the actress who later married Howard Hughes, who made her give up acting — when she teaches him to read by taking out the Bible and reading it with him. That's a poignant scene.

Logged


That's what you get, Drink, for being such an annoying Melville fanboy.
cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12679


easy come easy go


View Profile
« Reply #65 on: February 03, 2010, 03:37:01 AM »

"Viva Villa" on TMC today 8:45 AM Eastern

Logged

"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12679


easy come easy go


View Profile
« Reply #66 on: March 28, 2010, 07:52:13 PM »

Re-watched this recently
They Came To Cordura (1959) Dir. by Richard Rossen

starring:
 Gary Cooper ...  Maj. Thomas Thorn
 Rita Hayworth ...  Adelaide Geary
 Van Heflin ...  Sgt. John Chawk
 Tab Hunter ...  Lt. William Fowler
 Richard Conte ...  Cpl. Milo Trubee
 Michael Callan ...  Pvt. Andrew Hetherington
 Dick York ...  Pvt. Renziehausen
 Robert Keith ...  Col. Rogers
 Carlos Romero ...  Arreaga
 Jim Bannon ...  Capt. Paltz (as James Bannon)

A psychological Cavalry film/Zapata Western, basically Coop plays a Major Thorn who at Villa's attack on Columbus NM was stricken by fear and hid out in a culvert under the railway. His commanding officer a friend of his father, spares him and recommends him for non combat duty that consists of citing soldiers for bravery for the Congressional Medal of Honor.

Near the end of Pershings Punnative Expedition against Pancho Villa, at battle at Ojos Azules Hacienda, which was the last mounted line charge against an enemy in the history of the United States Cavalry, Cooper's character  Maj. Thomas Thorn cites 5 men for the medal. Coop has a personal interest in this because he himself wonders what it takes to be courageous, so he in turn asks each of his cited soldiers what they felt during the battle and what made them courageous.

The Commander who lead the charge Robert Keith, Col. Rogers, was expecting to also be cited by Thorn, (so that he could receive his generals star) but he's not and he bitterly sends Thorn with 6 men (one man cited for the medal from a previous skirmish) back to the army's rail head base in Cordura, Chihuahua, Mexico, the army wanted live heroes, and wanted to keep them out of combat until they were awarded the medals. The previously cited soldier was killed before Congress got around to awarding his medal.

Included in this detail is Adelaide Geary (Rita Hayworth) an American woman prisoner, the hacienda's owner, who Col. Rogers accuses of aiding the Villistas. In fact she had no choice with any of the Mexican warring factions and took all comers in. She is being sent home for trial. The confrontations with the bandits the woman, and increasingly, with each other, is the core of this adventure across a burning desert for six days back to Cordura. The very harsh circumstances reveal all five cited "heroes" to be at times pathetic, corrupt, hypocritical, cowardly, and degenerate, while Col Thorn and Adelaide Geary are shown to display an entirely different definition of courage.

Again the cavalry attack was well done and its the first I've ever seen with the US Cavalry in khaki. The CinemaScope scenery is gorgeous and upon a second viewing I knew what to expect, so I knew it wasn't going to have any of the "romance of the sombrero" of your typical Zapata Westerns and I could concentrate more on the interaction of the characters.

This is one film that tackles a difficult subject matter in an adult manner and deserves multiple viewings. It won't be everyone's cup of tea.

« Last Edit: March 29, 2010, 03:30:24 AM by cigar joe » Logged

"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
Novecento
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1539



View Profile
« Reply #67 on: March 29, 2010, 02:03:31 PM »

So how come Zapata gets all the credit for these Westerns and not Villa?

I guess it must be something to do with the leftist streak in them which was more in tune with Zapata than Villa in historical terms.

Logged
cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12679


easy come easy go


View Profile
« Reply #68 on: March 29, 2010, 03:09:33 PM »

So how come Zapata gets all the credit for these Westerns and not Villa?

I guess it must be something to do with the leftist streak in them which was more in tune with Zapata than Villa in historical terms.

I suppose you could say that, Viva Zapata also was closer to the Spaghetti Western Era than Viva Villa (1934).

Logged

"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12679


easy come easy go


View Profile
« Reply #69 on: September 04, 2010, 06:27:17 AM »

A trio of Mexican Zapata Westerns were on last night on TCM, (for the 100 anniversary of the MexRev according to Osborn) they were interesting, I was finally seeing the Mexican take on the Revolution, they were all in Spanish with English subtitles and all starred Pedro Armendariz and were directed by Ismael Rodríquez.

Nice concept initially with the disembodied head of Pancho Villa narrating his life so its basically vignettes of Pancho Villas life. However I found all the films way way to talkie, too much talking heads, to many crowd scenes, and not enough Mexican scenery and the music was pretty pedestrian, you'd think at least they would have used more of the songs that popularized the revolution, but no just bland laborious orchestral pieces. The films  got a bit better from first to last with the last (the last one was the only one that had a machine gun, lol, providing a bit more of the feel of a typical Zapata).

Its probably a cultural thing on what was emphasized in this trio of films and they may have been very popular in Mexico but there is not enough of the artistry and a noticeable lack of the political themes (perhaps still a touchy & taboo subject in Mexico) we have come to expect from the genre.

Así era Pancho Villa (1957)

The disembodied head of Mexico's best-known rebel Poncho Villa narrates several short stories from his own life. Cast Pedro Armendáriz as Pancho Villa, María Elena Marqués as Jesusita de Chihuahua, and Carlos López Moctezuma as Fierro. Dir: Ismael Rodríquez.

Pancho Villa y la Valentina (1960)

The many sides of Pancho Villa, one of Mexico's best-known rebels, are revealed.
Cast: Pedro Armendáriz, Elsa Aquirre, Carlos López Moctezuma. Dir: Ismael Rodríquez.

Cuando ¡Viva Villa..! es la muerte (1960)

Stories of the life of Pancho Villa are recounted by teachers, prisoners, farm hands and other small town residents.
Cast: Pedro Armendáriz, Elsa Aquirre, Carlos López Moctezuma. Dir: Ismael Rodríquez. C-92 mins

« Last Edit: September 04, 2010, 12:40:23 PM by cigar joe » Logged

"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
Groggy
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11458


This post gets Agnew's stamp of approval!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #70 on: September 04, 2010, 09:27:10 AM »

So how come Zapata gets all the credit for these Westerns and not Villa?

I guess it must be something to do with the leftist streak in them which was more in tune with Zapata than Villa in historical terms.

This may be true. I might also think that Zapata Western sounds better than Villa Western, but what do I know?

Logged


Saturday nights with Groggy
Novecento
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1539



View Profile
« Reply #71 on: September 04, 2010, 10:17:55 AM »

I suppose you could say that, Viva Zapata also was closer to the Spaghetti Western Era than Viva Villa (1934).

Good point. Never seen Viva Villa, but Viva Zapata with Marlon Brando is a good one.

A trio of Mexican Zapata Westerns were on last night on TCM, (for the 100 anniversary of the MexRev according to Osborn) they were interesting, I was finally seeing the Mexican take on the Revolution, they were all in Spanish with English subtitles and all starred Pedro Armendariz and were directed by Ismael Rodríquez.

I noticed that too. Looked pretty interesting.

This may be true. I might also think that Zapata Western sounds better than Villa Western, but what do I know?

Seems it was Corbucci who came up with the term.

Logged
stanton
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2948



View Profile
« Reply #72 on: September 04, 2010, 12:20:59 PM »

In Germany they are simply called Revolution Westerns.

Logged

cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12679


easy come easy go


View Profile
« Reply #73 on: September 20, 2010, 08:41:18 PM »

I actually happened to chance upon "The Treasure Of Pancho Villa" this morning on TCM with Rory Calhoun, Shelley Winters, and Gilbert Roland, caught a small piece of it at the end with Calhoun & Roland building a machine gun nest out of sacks of gold holding off a Mexican Army, it had some nice touches every tiime a bullet it a sack gold coins would spill out.

Logged

"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12679


easy come easy go


View Profile
« Reply #74 on: September 26, 2010, 04:12:35 PM »

Viva Zapata & Viva Villa on tonight starting at 8PM Eastern Time Afro

Logged

"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Visit FISTFUL-OF-LEONE.COM

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.029 seconds with 20 queries.