John Wayne

[Tucumcari Bound]

Yes, Red River was good. Although it would be even better with a darker ending... 

How could he say bad about High Noon? 

The ending of RED RIVER never bothered me much but I do agree that a darker ending would have been great. In terms of HIGH NOON, John Wayne didn't like it's political message. Well, in his mind there was a message while others would disagree.

[dave jenkins]

Wayne is sometimes good, sometimes bad. It just depends on the film.

High Noon sucks. First, it is annoyingly didactic. Second, its message is patently untrue: American communities don't cave when threatened; if anything, the danger brings everyone together against the common threat. Third, as Howard Hawks rightly observed, having a law enforcement professional running around begging for help is ludicrous: such people don't want civilians getting in the way and mucking things up. Fourth, setting up a character to be a practicing Quaker and then having her repudiate her beliefs in a very crass way at the end is an insult to Quakers and thus the very height of bad taste. Fifth, we have to wait a very long time to see what little action the film contains. Sixth, having to listen to that gawdawful song all the way through the picture while waiting for what little action the film contains is reason enough to absolve anyone from ever having to watch the damned thing again. Seventh, who let Grandpa Coop out of the home?

[Silenzio]

Woah, I was about to post a response to Dave's post, and I turned on the TV, and High Noon was on.  Crazy, man.


Anyway, Grace Kelly is hot, and so is whoever plays that Ramirez chick.


Anyway, I see where DJ is coming from (except I like the song!).  I don't remember the the thing about the Quaker, I guess I'll see here now that it's on tv, but if it's like DJ says that is pretty tasteless.


Anyhow, I think that the plusses of High Noon outweigh its minuses.  I like a lot of things about the film, like Cooper's character, the way it unfolds in real time, the bleak black and white cinematography, Grace Kelly, and I also think that the action at the end is satisfactory.  Even if it's not a lot of action, it's the way it builds up that makes the action great. 

I'm luckily at a point in my life where I can overlook lack of realism or logic in favor of the so-called "artistic value."  Maybe when I'm an ol' fart at play like DJ, I'll hate the Searchers and High Noon just as much as he does, but for now I'm happy saying their great films, and even fairly radical for their time.

[dave jenkins]

Woah, I was about to post a response to Dave's post, and I turned on the TV, and High Noon was on.  Crazy, man.
Anyway, Grace Kelly is hot, and so is whoever plays that Ramirez chick.

Katy Jurado.

Btw, just because I think it's an awful film (awful because of its dishonesty), that doesn't blind me to its many good points. Yeah, I'm a Grace Kelly fan myself. HN has excellent cinematography and  mise-en-scene; it's use of montage to build suspense is all Hitchcock or anyone else could demand of it. At a formal level, HN is a very well-crafted work.

But craftsmanship is never enough; the vision underpinning a work has to be worthy of its decorative overlays. A field of sequins may look very nice, but if all it does is surround a gilded turd, all that artistry goes for nothing.

[Jill]

I like High Noon, but the duel at the end is lame. And I'd like Gary Cooper dying, too, but I'm evil. I like when the good guy dies. 

[Silenzio]

Katy Jurado.

Btw, just because I think it's an awful film (awful because of its dishonesty), that doesn't blind me to its many good points. Yeah, I'm a Grace Kelly fan myself. HN has excellent cinematography and  mise-en-scene; it's use of montage to build suspense is all Hitchcock or anyone else could demand of it. At a formal level, HN is a very well-crafted work.

But craftsmanship is never enough; the vision underpinning a work has to be worthy of its decorative overlays. A field of sequins may look very nice, but if all it does is surround a gilded turd, all that artistry goes for nothing.

Good point, and I'm sure you'll be happy to know that I looked up the word "didactic" to understand your argument better.

But I think i'll once again have to disagree with you on what is being "gilded."  You may think it's a turd, but I still think it's something great.  The cornerstone of the film is not the cowardice of the townspeople, but the bravery of the Sheriff.  I don't think the film is criticizing American society, but rather emphasizing the good aspects of Kane, willing to do what's right when the odds are against him.  I mean, it's commendable that this film builds up so much suspense and tension, even though everyone knows who is going to live and who is going to die in the end.  Same goes for the comparable and beautifully shot western 3:10 to Yuma. 

But still, I understand why you don't like this film.  I can see why you think it's preachy and the like, but I'll just have to disagree, I think it's a good message and even though you know from the beginning how it's going to end, it's exhilarating when you see the good guy pull through (and this is the reason that the remake of 3:10 to Yuma had an absolutely shit ending).


And finally, I have to ask, what did you think of Rio Bravo?

[dave jenkins]

I think we covered that in another thread. It's very hit-and-miss. I like the scene where Dean-o chases the wounded man into the saloon and is tipped to his location by the blood that has dripped on the bartop--great, great moviemaking. But Ricky Nelson singing his song? No thanks. Walter Brennan? In every scene he's in, I wish someone would wail on him with a tire iron. Brennan can be great--he's an amazing Prince of Darkness in My Darling Clementine--but I really hate his folksy side-kick routine. Angie Dickinson? I love her in other movies--Don Siegel's The Killers, Boorman's Point Blank--but here she's all wrong. The Duke himself? A creditable performance, but not one of his most memorable. When it shows up on TV I always watch a scene or two, but rarely sit through the whole thing.

[dave jenkins]

Worth reading: http://blog.moviefone.com/2010/10/15/john-wayne-actors-we-miss/

[Groggy]

Thanks Jenkins.

[dave jenkins]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! 

http://www.cinemaretro.com/index.php?/archives/5218-JOHN-WAYNE-MONOPOLY-GAME-IS-HERE!.html

[Dust Devil]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! 

http://www.cinemaretro.com/index.php?/archives/5218-JOHN-WAYNE-MONOPOLY-GAME-IS-HERE!.html

I wonder what's the most costly location on the map?

[Groggy]

Alamo Way perhaps?

[Dust Devil]

Or Monument Valley?

We just have to wait a couple of days, I bet he bought it already.

[dave jenkins]

Nah. But I might be giving it as a Christmas gift . . .

[The Firecracker]

I think we covered that in another thread. It's very hit-and-miss. I like the scene where Dean-o chases the wounded man into the saloon and is tipped to his location by the blood that has dripped on the bartop--great, great moviemaking. But Ricky Nelson singing his song? No thanks. Walter Brennan? In every scene he's in, I wish someone would wail on him with a tire iron. Brennan can be great--he's an amazing Prince of Darkness in My Darling Clementine--but I really hate his folksy side-kick routine. Angie Dickinson? I love her in other movies--Don Siegel's The Killers, Boorman's Point Blank--but here she's all wrong. The Duke himself? A creditable performance, but not one of his most memorable. When it shows up on TV I always watch a scene or two, but rarely sit through the whole thing.

All good points but I still like it.
The major dilemma for me is the soundtrack.
It undermines the whole movie.
Take the scene where Wayne and Martin are doing security work while walking on each end of the street.
It's supposed to be a pretty tense scene and I seem to recall the soundtrack being lighthearted and wonky.

Anyway, as far as the "trilogy" goes my favorite is El Dorado because I prefer Mitchum in the Dean Martin role and James Caan in the Ricky Nelson role.
Also, we get outta the town for a little bit so it feels a bit more cinematic.