John Wayne

[Dust Devil]

Nah. But I might be giving it as a Christmas gift . . .

You want my address right away?

[dave jenkins]

Depends. This year, have you been naughty or nice?

[dave jenkins]

Anyway, as far as the "trilogy" goes my favorite is El Dorado because I prefer Mitchum in the Dean Martin role and James Caan in the Ricky Nelson role.
Also, we get outta the town for a little bit so it feels a bit more cinematic.

Well, we agree on this. My major complaint on all these films is that they are too town-bound.

[Dust Devil]

Depends. This year, have you been naughty or nice?

Demon to some, angel to others.

[The Firecracker]

Well, we agree on this. My major complaint on all these films is that they are too town-bound.

I'd have to watch Rio Lobo again as I don't seem to recall much town action in that but that film has other problems...

[Groggy]

Rio Lobo has a pretty expansive plot and doesn't revert to the Rio Bravo storyline until the end. Of course, this is rendered moot by the fact that it stinks.

[drinkanddestroy]

the opening sequences in Rio Lobo  are fantastic, but overall, it is not a very good movie.

RE: John Wayne: I think he was great. Some people do not like his politics, but I do not focus on that stuff when judging an actor.
 True, he generally plays "himself" in movies, but so what? That's what we want to see! In many of Steve McQueen's big movies, he generally only played "himself" too and that's why we loved him.

I prefer Leone's movies to any Hollywood Western, but Wayne was great, and made some incredible movies. Rio Bravo is my favorite Hollywood Western. Stagecoach was great too, and I really liked Fort Apache and Red River as well.

[tintin]

In the Playboy  interview, even Wayne admitted he did about 50 movies, "thirty of them, stinkers". A lot  he also admitted were stereotypical horse operas. He especially  hated having to sing--Gene Autry, that "singing hillbilly" as Wayne called him, was dubbed in. He was doing some P/R for the movie and was outfitted with a guitar. He was highly embarrassed by  being asked by kids to "sing". Also in the interview, he resented "The Wild Bunch" 's violence-the "chicken livers thrown by special effects men", etc. Yet, in "Big Jake", written by the Fink Brothers, who also wrote "Dirty Harry", we see an awful lot of gore for a Wayne movie. Perhaps the most.  He also made a racist remark in the interview he could never live down even though he later apologized.

  I  usually agree--I like an actor/actress for their Work;  I try not to let their personal life/politics color my judgment. Like, who Cares if George Takei is flaming gay?-  At   least, he doesn't act that way on screen, like Robert Vaughn in "The Magnificent Seven" (I Hate Him!)

  I loved a  lot  of  Wayne's  movies, but he acted  so childish in some, like "Liberty Vallance". Poor baby can't get the girl, so he gets drunk and burns his hacienda.  Jimmy Stewart was the true hero of that one.  Wayne could almost have been written out--except for the immortal line: "Pil-grim!".   I often wondered if he had a small mental problem, being the character he was made to act as.  I enjoyed him better when he was later portrayed as more human--like in "Big Jake"; when he  actually admits to being scared, and his eyes get big when his gun clicks empty. He also  grudgingly admits to the advantages of 20th-century technology-- after all,  Chris Mitchum's scope  rifle and automatic pistol saved his life.  My biggest beef is, as always, is his Historical  in-accuracy (not really Wayne's fault) .Accuracy was started by Leone. I resent seeing the Duke carrying an 1892 Winchester around in every movie--even when it's supposed to be 1862 Mexico...   Leone's influence colors modern Westerns to this day: "Silverado", "Tombstone", etc. The weapons and clothes are vintage; 1873 Winchesters and tall, Montana peak hats. I see in old photos where about half the cow hands seem to be wearing four-fluted, sombrero-like,  flat-brim hats that look Exactly like the later Army Campaign hat. Anyone who lives in the South West prefers a big, flat brim--the sun is brutal. NOT a small curled-brim--these are a much more modern style, preferred in the North to let rain run off quickly. Impractical in the SW.

He had to play a drunk in "True Grit"  to get his only Oscar--he probably would have gotten a lifetime achievement anyway. Come to think of it,  Lee Marvin had to play a drunk in "Cat Ballou" to get his--but, He could Sing...

I think I enjoy  Wayne's work better when it is based on a book than a screenplay written especially for him.

One advantage Wayne had over Leone--Location. Even Leone couldn't import a vintage American 4-4-0 Steamer...he was forced to use European trains in Spanish locale.  I personally try to ignore the obvious chain-and-buffer locomotives and concentrate on the rest of the movie.  At least Leone got a vintage Harley in "Duck, You Sucker" , rather than  try to pass an obvious  Yamaha 400 as in Wayne's "Big Jake". Ring-ding-ding...

[Richard--W]

I miss John Wayne at the movies. His films, and especially his westerns, were entertaining and reassuring. I respect him personally and I admire his talent as an actor. I think he was a brilliant actor, so brilliant we hardly notice how hard he's working. I don't agree with his strictly conservative politics, and I shake my head at some serious errors of judgment he made in the 1950s. But I also know there was a change in his politics as he got older, and that his politics were tempered with a tolerance and forgiveness for others that the other side did not reciprocate. I wish he had taken risks in his choices. I wish he had accepted both Dirty Harry and Lonesome Dove. His inner decency and moral presence would have invested the former character with a dimension and conflict that is sorely missing from the film. The film has no heart, and John Wayne would have given it one.  I particularly like his performance in McQ (1974), an average cop film that nobody looks at very closely, or they'd notice that it's distinguished by a performance that is meticulous, layered and busy, and yet so small in the size of expression. It is a subtle performance but deeply felt. The character of Lon McQ is betrayed by his friends and colleagues, and even by his ex-wife. The institutions he has always put his faith in are exposed as corrupt. That scene where he has to go to his ex-wife and her rich husband to borrow money is interesting because of what Wayne conveys. He's not asking for himself, but it costs him to ask, and he tries not to show his surprise when they agree.  But perhaps the weariness and sadness in Wayne's Lon McQ, and the restraint, isn't just acting.

Wayne is sometimes good, sometimes bad. It just depends on the film.

High Noon sucks. First, it is annoyingly didactic. Second, its message is patently untrue: American communities don't cave when threatened; if anything, the danger brings everyone together against the common threat. Third, as Howard Hawks rightly observed, having a law enforcement professional running around begging for help is ludicrous: such people don't want civilians getting in the way and mucking things up. Fourth, setting up a character to be a practicing Quaker and then having her repudiate her beliefs in a very crass way at the end is an insult to Quakers and thus the very height of bad taste. Fifth, we have to wait a very long time to see what little action the film contains. Sixth, having to listen to that gawdawful song all the way through the picture while waiting for what little action the film contains is reason enough to absolve anyone from ever having to watch the damned thing again. Seventh, who let Grandpa Coop out of the home?

Woah, I was about to post a response to Dave's post, and I turned on the TV, and High Noon was on.  Crazy, man.

...Anyway, I see where DJ is coming from (except I like the song!).  I don't remember the the thing about the Quaker, I guess I'll see here now that it's on tv, but if it's like DJ says that is pretty tasteless.


Anyhow, I think that the plusses of High Noon outweigh its minuses.  I like a lot of things about the film, like Cooper's character, the way it unfolds in real time, the bleak black and white cinematography, Grace Kelly, and I also think that the action at the end is satisfactory.  Even if it's not a lot of action, it's the way it builds up that makes the action great.  ...

...But I think i'll once again have to disagree with you on what is being "gilded."  You may think it's a turd, but I still think it's something great.  The cornerstone of the film is not the cowardice of the townspeople, but the bravery of the Sheriff.  I don't think the film is criticizing American society, but rather emphasizing the good aspects of Kane, willing to do what's right when the odds are against him.  I mean, it's commendable that this film builds up so much suspense and tension, even though everyone knows who is going to live and who is going to die in the end.  Same goes for the comparable and beautifully shot western 3:10 to Yuma.  

But still, I understand why you don't like this film.  I can see why you think it's preachy and the like, but I'll just have to disagree, I think it's a good message and even though you know from the beginning how it's going to end, it's exhilarating when you see the good guy pull through (and this is the reason that the remake of 3:10 to Yuma had an absolutely shit ending).

There have been many instances when the public in a group turned its back on a crime being committed. It happens all the time, in fact. There have been actual events in the American west that parallel the situation in High Noon. But even if that were not the case, I dig the song, I love watching Grace Kelly and Katy Jurado, I think Lon Chaney Jr should have been nominated for his supporting role which he plays with great feeling, Gary Cooper is a hero I want to be like when I grow up, and the film is a masterpiece of structure and editing. So far as I'm concerned it's an outstanding western flaws and all.

Richard

[drinkanddestroy]

There have been many instances when the public in a group turned its back on a crime being committed. It happens all the time, in fact. There have been actual events in the American west that parallel the situation in High Noon. But even if that were not the case, I dig the song, I love watching Grace Kelly and Katy Jurado, I think Lon Chaney Jr should have been nominated for his supporting role which he plays with great feeling, Gary Cooper is a hero I want to be like when I grow up, and the film is masterpiece of structure and editing. So far as I'm concerned it's an outstanding western flaws and all.

Richard

RE: High NOon: You may like the performances and the song, but IMO the story is dumb and I did not like the movie. It's basically just the marshal walking around and around and around for the whole movie till the end. It drags on and is boring. After watching Leone movies and reading about his influences, I decided to watch High Noon cuz of how much I'd heard about it as a Leone influence. (At this point, I had seen many of Leone's films but no AW's yet; I believe this was the first AW I saw after having seen Leone's movies and read all about his influences in Frayling's). So my point is that I was just watching it from a simplistic point of view of whether this was a movie I could enjoy, I was not in any way focusing (or even aware of) any deeper message RE: American civilization or the Hollywood blacklist or whatever. And I did not enjoy the movie, plain and simple.

Similarly, a while later I watched Rio Bravo, not being aware of any "deeper meanings" of it being a response to High Noon or whatever. Again, just watching from a very simplistic point of view: do I enjoy this movie? And I absolutely loved it. Without being in any way aware of any deeper meanings behind them, I was, separately, very disappointed by High Noon and I loved Rio Bravo.

[Groggy]

High Noon is a Stanley Kramer production so you can expect a rigged drama with an obnoxious message. Trouble is, the movie can't figure out what that message is. Sure it's well-made, but craftsmanship only counts for so much.

[Richard--W]

High Noon is 100% successful as a suspense film and as a western.
The script is strong and smart and the direction is perfect.
It's a story well told.
I enjoy the hell out of the film, and I think highly of it no matter what anyone says.


Richard

[drinkanddestroy]

High Noon is 100% successful as a suspense film and as a western.
The script is strong and smart and the direction is perfect.
It's a story well told.
I enjoy the hell out of the film, and I think highly of it no matter what anyone says.


Richard

your opinion should certainly not be affected by what anyone else says 

[Groggy]

Interestingly the local FYE had the John Wayne-John Ford box set on sale for $19.99 (vs. a list price of $59.99). Something to keep an eye out for.

[Richard--W]

Let me put it to you this way:

I've read on this board that Sergio Leone liked High Noon and that the film influenced him.

If it's good enough for Sergio Leone, it's good enough for me.

Further, if Sergio Leone had met with John Wayne and talked about doing a film together, I'll bet their minds would have met, because they were both astute men and artists, and that's a film I would drive through red lights to see.


Richard