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: Missing scene in OUATIA DVD  ( 22401 )
Jon
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« : February 26, 2003, 08:34:42 AM »

Has anyone else noticed that the DVD currently available of OUATIA is missing a scene!Near the end of the film when Max is trying to get Noodles to shoot him,in my VHS version there is a brief montage of flashbacks showing the two when they were younger,accompanied by the main theme.However,the DVD removes that bit.iI hope the forthcoming Warner release includes that scene as I think the film is better for it!It adds more emotion and breaks up the lengthy dialogue sequence between Max and Noodles which otherwise I think goes on a bit too long.

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« #1 : February 26, 2003, 11:58:38 AM »

Wait a minute, what DVD are you talking about? You hace the OUTA Dvd? Where did you find it?


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« #2 : February 28, 2003, 10:55:42 AM »

I got this DVD from www.usdirectdvd.com.It is Region-free and must be either Greek or Portuguese as it has subtitles/languages in those languages but these are only optional and the cover writing is all English.Sadly the disc is Full-Screen and has no extras except for biographies and a trailer which I could not access.Quality is OK if not great and it appears to be uncut except for the flashback I described previously.I bought this before I heard about the forthcoming Warner release.The disc costs £18.99 and will probably arrive a week after your order.

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« #3 : April 09, 2003, 10:53:02 AM »

The flashback you describe ONLY appears in the version Channel 4 screen from time to time. It's not in the version I have on VHS nor the version I saw in the cinema a couple of years back.

It really an unnecessary flashback too and it's noticable compared to all the other flashbacks that it really sharp and abrupt kinda like it was added as an after thought by someone tinkering. I sincerely hope it's not present on the forthcoming DVD.

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« #4 : April 09, 2003, 01:03:53 PM »

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you,I think the flashback makes the film even better,I find it quite moving couopled with Morricone's theme.

I own two VHS versions of this.The first,which I must have bought about 12 or 13 years ago,DOES have the flashback in.The second,which I bought later on and was a widescreen/remastered version,does not.It was in Channel 4's version but not in BBC2's.It seems that older releases of the movie have the scene and more recent ones don't.

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« #5 : May 16, 2003, 11:09:25 AM »

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you,I think the flashback makes the film even better,I find it quite moving couopled with Morricone's theme.

I own two VHS versions of this.The first,which I must have bought about 12 or 13 years ago,DOES have the flashback in.The second,which I bought later on and was a widescreen/remastered version,does not.It was in Channel 4's version but not in BBC2's.It seems that older releases of the movie have the scene and more recent ones don't.

I totally agree with you. This flashback has to be in a version which should be something close to a director's cut (the real director's cut would be 270 minutes!). There are two reasons:
1) Leone himself talked about the 227-minutes version when he promoted the film in Europe. And this version contains the flashback. I saw it myself.
2) The whole final scene is much better with the flashback included. The emotional impact is much deeper.
So I really hope the inserted the scene back in. But I doubt it: In the 226-minutes laserdisc it was missing...

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« #6 : June 25, 2003, 10:41:02 PM »

Just a quick post saying that the new DVD release does have this flashback in it.  First time I saw it, it was a nice touch.

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« #7 : June 30, 2003, 03:41:21 AM »

Has anyone else noticed that the DVD currently available of OUATIA is missing a scene!Near the end of the film when Max is trying to get Noodles to shoot him,in my VHS version there is a brief montage of flashbacks showing the two when they were younger,accompanied by the main theme.However,the DVD removes that bit.iI hope the forthcoming Warner release includes that scene as I think the film is better for it!It adds more emotion and breaks up the lengthy dialogue sequence between Max and Noodles which otherwise I think goes on a bit too long.

I disagree, that montage always insulted my intelligence, the scene is about Noodles revenge on Max, by refusing to recognise him, the montage sequence distorts that and weakens trhe scene, and I know Leone never intended it. The DVD version is deffinately the better version without it (and If you insist on watching that montage, just watch the trailer)


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« #8 : July 01, 2003, 02:53:06 AM »

I disagree, that montage always insulted my intelligence, the scene is about Noodles revenge on Max, by refusing to recognise him, the montage sequence distorts that and weakens trhe scene, and I know Leone never intended it. The DVD version is deffinately the better version without it (and If you insist on watching that montage, just watch the trailer)
I agree with ewie b,  flashback must stay in spectator's brain when Bailey appears.
So people waits Noodle reactions and share or not his attitude.

In fact  all "missing scenes" are not useful. I understand that it's wonderful for fan's to see new scenes but the question is:is it better for the film ?
Remember the missing scenes " meeting with frenchies " in Apocalypse Now redux.I approve that they have been cut .
So missing scenes as bonus ,outside of the film but with Director agreement,  are often the good solution  : "In th e mood for Love" is a good example , missing scenes are alternative stories.


 


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« #9 : July 02, 2003, 02:46:22 AM »

I still think the scene improves the film.And don't forget,it was in the film when it was originally released,I know this because I have a review of the film dating from that time which mentions the scene.It was also in the first UK video release,but was than missing from most versons util the new DVD.

It is possible that Leone removed the scene after the initial release himself,but I somehow doubt it.It is all kike many of Leone's other films which have an important flashback near the end.I'm thinking particularly of Once upon A time In The West and Fistful Of Dynamitemaklthough that flashback is also often missing.

It is odd that the flashback has only childhood moments,I read somewhere that the original script had different shots to be used.Richard Scickel on the DVD commentary makes a good suggestion that the use of childhood bits suggests a memory of innocence,a time before things got really complicated.Very similar to FOD!

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« #10 : July 02, 2003, 03:17:30 AM »

It's always been said (don't know if it's true though) that the original cut of the movie circulating in Italian theaters and TV was the authentic version Sergio wanted to appear on screens...

Well, I'm Italian and have never ever seen that scene. I'm also quite sure that what we have always seen here in Italy was the same cut showed that very first time in Cannes, and available now in DVD.

To cut it short, I don't know what I'm missing but I'm sincerely happy not to have that scene included, since Leone always said that the Italian/Cannes version was his one and only director's cut...
 
 

« : July 02, 2003, 03:21:37 AM guybrush »

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« #11 : July 02, 2003, 06:02:24 AM »

t is all kike many of Leone's other films which have an important flashback near the end.I'm thinking particularly of Once upon A time In The West and Fistful Of Dynamitemaklthough that flashback is also often missing.

I

Jon, I receive your argument but I agree with guybrush : OUATIA is VERY different from others Leone's film. It 's a mature opus , very human , realistic and for the first time with a looser heroe: imagine Harmonica or Joe facing Senator Bailey: strong music, dark eyes, shooting and bloody revenge... I'm sure that Sergio hoped to quit these previous domains and he really  succeeded  . So he let flashbacks and "gros plans" and unshaved people for another category of masterpiece.  


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« #12 : July 10, 2003, 04:48:35 PM »

I disagree, that montage always insulted my intelligence, the scene is about Noodles revenge on Max, by refusing to recognise him, the montage sequence distorts that and weakens trhe scene, and I know Leone never intended it. The DVD version is deffinately the better version without it (and If you insist on watching that montage, just watch the trailer)

I totally disagree.  It's not revenge at all.  If Noodles wanted revenge, he would have shot him.  What Noodles did instead is to not acknowledge him, but not out of spite.  Out of love.  Love specifically for the more innocent version of Max that he knew as a boy.  That's why there is the flashback.   When he sees Max he relives those memories, and those are the things he treasures.   It's a great moment.

Jon
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« #13 : July 11, 2003, 09:32:24 AM »

Exactly!You've articulated my argument much better than me!!

I have always wondered who removed the scene in the first place.Was it Sergio?somebody else under his instructions?The distributor?I know that the Fistful Of Dynamite flashback was removed at the request of the Italian distributor who didn't like the suggestions of a 'menage a trois'!

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« #14 : July 11, 2003, 09:52:50 AM »

I totally disagree.  It's not revenge at all.  If Noodles wanted revenge, he would have shot him.  What Noodles did instead is to not acknowledge him, but not out of spite.  Out of love.  Love specifically for the more innocent version of Max that he knew as a boy.  That's why there is the flashback.   When he sees Max he relives those memories, and those are the things he treasures.   It's a great moment.


Yes, I agree with this, Love is a better word than revenge in Noodles case. For better or worse he is all heart. But I still think the scene is better without the flashback. We don't need to be reminded that Noodles loved Max and they had a great friendship at this point. The scene (and what Max has become) is the modern world which Noodles turns his back on, which is why we flashback to the opium den, and the smaile, because that's Noodles final gesture to the world.


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