Sergio Leone Web Board
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 17, 2017, 06:24:14 PM
Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
News:


+  Sergio Leone Web Board
|-+  Films of Sergio Leone
| |-+  Duck, You Sucker (Moderators: cigar joe, moviesceleton, Dust Devil)
| | |-+  Tuco or Juan
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Tuco or Juan  (Read 18699 times)
Juan Miranda
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 842


Badges?!?


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2005, 07:46:43 AM »

As you can guess by my forum name, I am very fond of of old Juan.  Smiley

His accent is as absurd as Jimmy Coburn's "Oirish" one, and this lends the pair a cartoonish quality in keeping with some of the visual flourishes.

He does share some of Tuco's peasant traits, his chats with God for instance. But as said above by some folks, they are two different guys in two different types of movie. Juan changes and evolves, where as Tuco is simply motivated by greed.

The massacre in the caves sequence (when seen cut correctly on the recent DVD resoration) is one of the greatest sequences Leone ever shot. Utterly moving, and quite daring, refusing to show us what Juan sees. We just get an extended take of Steiger's devastated face. We only see the dead people through Coburn's point of view. He instantly feels guilty about Steiger's dead children, and can barely look Steiger in the eye again until the end of the film.

In a lighter moment, the exasperated look on Steiger's face as he realises the bank is merly full of grubby prisoners is priceless.

Steiger was characaturing some of Leone's quirks in his performance, and even looks a little like him. Wallach was origionally supposed to play Miranda, of course, and apparently he fell out very badly with Sergio over it, and wouldn't speak to him for years (a familiar tale with Leone collabarators).

On a technical side note, I was always stunned by the panning, zooming shot of the dead in the cave scene. If you have even tried pulling focus on a camera, you'll appriciate this is a sheer tour de force of the Focus Puller's craft. Indeed, I wondered how the hell they managed to to achieve this shot, and it came as no surprise when I learned they had an early version of video assist on the shoot, very cutting edge technology at the time.

Logged

Uomo_senza_ nome
Bandido
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 72


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2005, 10:40:55 AM »

you're right mate, i have a little favorite in Rod steiger, he's one the greatest actors of all time, and the cave scene is great. The music and the closeup of steigers agonized face...... Real horrorshow

Logged
leonehayrani
Chicken Thief
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 25


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2005, 05:58:01 PM »

I love both the characters and I think that both Steiger and Wallach do great jobs portraying their respective characters.  Overall, I may say I "enjoy" Tuco more because of how much fun he and GDU are, but I can't say that I "like" him more.  Both are fairly complex, troublesome, but very sympathetic, likeable characters. 

As to whether Wallach could have done a better job as Juan, I am not sure.  Steiger does a great job at portraying the complexities of Juan and I think convincingly brings ut a combination of sympathy, simpleness, focus, and menace that probably Wallach would not do as well.  The real difference I think in Steiger portraying Juan is in the latter elements of some focus and menace.  There, Steiger, particularly in his face and eyes, adds great intensity that I have a hard time believing Wallach would have achieved.  I know Wallach played nasty baddies (Magnif.Seven and Lord Jim), but not with the same results that Steiger gets. 

Steiger also does a great job at conveying the pain and loss Juan suffers.  As others have pointed out, this is very effective when he finds his family massacred, and it is also compelling at the end of the film, when he wonders "What about me?" and the camera focuses on him.

On the other hand, Wallach may well have done just as great a job.  Since he didn't do it, it's hard to tell.  I am certain that Wallach's version of Juan would have been a bit different from Steiger's, though, even if he did a great job.  Maybe he would have come across more like Tuco, which I probably wouldn't want.  I wouldn't want just another Tuco (however much I love the character and Wallach's portayal of him), and I wouldn't want to associate the two characters more.  Although part of me would have loved to see Wallach again in such a role, I therefore have to say that with Steiger's contributions and with the variety this brings, I am happy with thw two actors in their respective roles. 

Logged
KERMIT
Guest
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2005, 07:18:42 AM »

i wish leone would have made some sort of spinoff of FFDM propr to GB&U using steiger & wallach ala' mortimer & monco.
only w/ that comedic twist leone & both these priceless actors could have done.

Logged
Uomo_senza_ nome
Bandido
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 72


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2005, 09:00:36 AM »

wouldn't it be nice

Logged
J B
Bandido
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 100



View Profile
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2005, 11:07:59 AM »

Tuco easily.  rod Steiger was good, but Elli Wallach just steals that movie.  he managed to create a sympathetic character out of a ruthless bandit.

Logged
redyred
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 499


Ever the facetious one


View Profile WWW
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2005, 06:46:14 PM »

Ah but did he manage to create a ruthless bandit out of a sympathetic character? Now that only a genius could have done.

Logged

It's class.
dave jenkins
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13627

"One banana, two banana, three banana, four...."


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2005, 09:40:03 PM »

Or a complete madman.

Logged


That's what you get, Drink, for lying in the middle of the road.
Banjo
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4428


Don't you like music with your supper?


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2005, 05:38:10 AM »

This is maybe a stupid comment but had Eli Wallach been slotted in as Juan as originally intended then would we have had an inferior movie?I say this because of the story of how Steiger bullishly insisted on Leone directing after the Bogdanovich fiasco.Bearing in mind( the more easy going?) Wallach was more than happy to partake in lesser efforts by Tessari,Collizzi,Corbucci and also Coburns willingness to star in the not so great Massacre at Fort Holman, perhaps neither  of them would have been too bothered about who ended up directing DYS.Maybe we have the lesser evil of Steiger(very good actually) as Juan in a Leone directed DYS rather than Wallach as Juan in a non-Leone directed DYS.Perhaps some of us maybe are guilty of wanting to have our cake and eat it!!

« Last Edit: November 06, 2005, 06:46:00 AM by banjo » Logged
Uomo_senza_ nome
Bandido
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 72


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2005, 11:32:48 AM »

Yeah sure, why not?

Logged
HEX
Guest
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2005, 11:34:04 AM »

Wallach and Steiger are both dubbed by the same actor (Carlo Romano, Jerry Lewis' dubber) in the italian releases.


it was u CHARLIE it was u.

Logged
Banjo
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4428


Don't you like music with your supper?


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2005, 08:38:59 AM »

Yeah sure, why not?
Well in the words of Jagger/Richards - "You can't always get what you want-ant!!"

Logged
The Firecracker
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9672


Rub me the wrong way, and I'll go off in your face


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2006, 07:03:04 PM »

yeah, any die-hard DYS fans under the illusion that Rod Steiger's Juan is even a patch on Eli Wallach's Tuco is misled. i dont think there are many that would argue it. dont get me wrong, steiger may be a great actor, but in that film he just got the accent and mood all wrong.


perhaps I am a "misguided soul" as you mentioned. I happen to find Steiger's Bandit better executed than Eli's performance as Tuco. The accent didnt bother me. And I saw nothing wrong with his "mood".

Logged



The Official COMIN' AT YA! re-release site
http://cominatyanoir3d.com/
The Firecracker
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9672


Rub me the wrong way, and I'll go off in your face


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2006, 07:12:43 PM »

i wish leone would have made some sort of spinoff of FFDM propr to GB&U using steiger & wallach ala' mortimer & monco.
only w/ that comedic twist leone & both these priceless actors could have done.



that would have never worked. Tuco would have been an old man(if not dead already) by the time Juan was old enough to go on some mis-adventure with Tuco. Remember that there is a 48 year difference between the events of "GBU" and the events of "Duck you sucker".

I would have much rather seen an Angel Eyes and Tuco spin-off.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2006, 08:22:44 PM by The Firecracker » Logged



The Official COMIN' AT YA! re-release site
http://cominatyanoir3d.com/
roberti
Bandido
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 127


Jamais personne ne t'aimera comme je t'aime


View Profile
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2006, 08:37:19 PM »

I do think that Steiger is exactly playing like Sergio wanted to so I should say amen .
Nevertheless I think it is not enough and I would have definitely created another role:Marlon Brando (with his latino complexion)as a real local revolutionary, reactiving John Mallory instinct of rebel,  involved in the cause but not totally unrealistic while John would have been much more critical and would have kept more distance.
Rod Steiger could have been this third funny and naive character  he was actually playing but I think Wallach would have been better.

I know I am not an authority to rewrite or rethink Sergio
stuff but I always think perfection and it is easier with Sergio as a model.

Logged

Ton nombril est une belle coupe arrondie ou jamais le vin ne manque, ton ventre est une vallee de ble entouree de lys, tes seins sont des grappes de raisin mur, ta bouche a la douceur de la pomme.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Visit FISTFUL-OF-LEONE.COM

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.046 seconds with 19 queries.