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Sean Sean
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« on: March 04, 2003, 09:30:54 PM »

The question is... what kind of movies would Leone be doing today if he wasn´t dead?

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shorty larsen
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« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2003, 01:06:29 PM »

Good question. Who knows?

It seems to me that in his 3 bigger movies (what I consider his 3 bigger movies), GBU, OUTW and OUTA, Leone was very interested in the US history. How this country became what he is?

What can you find when you dig in the dirt of the US history?

In this context, Leone loved to tell the history of someone absolutely indifferent by what was going on around him. Absoluty indifferent about the US growing, the US history, if we could say so.

In GBU, It's the story of 3 men who searchs a tresor in the middle of the killings of the Civil war. We all know this.

In OUTW, I think Leone analyses the importance of the railroad in the colonisation of the west and in the economic growing of the country, and in the middle of all this, a personnal revenge.

In OUTA, its the links between the mob (jewish, italian, irish, whatever) and the political power. How a mob chief can became a senator for example (remember the links between the father of JFK and the italian mob). But it's also the story of immigration, of suffering, of poverty (all this in relationship with immigration). And in this context, a story of friendship, love, and double crossing.

In this 3 movies, 3 epics stories if i'm allowed to use this adjetive, the growing of US seems to have a price: death, indifference, betrayal, injustice. I think Leone's movies are enourmous metaphores of the dark side of US history.

You can also find, in all Leone's movies, a character who's torturated by his past, a character who has to catch up his past, or a character who is catched up by his past.....

The past is a very important element on Leone's movies. Maybe he was torturated himself by his own past.

Indio, the Coronel, Harmonica, Cheyenne, Noodles, Tuco. These are all characters tortured by their past.

I don't know what kind of movies would Leone be doing today, but you can sure there will be some of this elements, and of course, as always, a great photography and a great music (Morricone is still alive!!!!)

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« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2003, 04:25:14 PM »

Well there was the opening scene of Leningrad.

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« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2003, 04:20:39 PM »


In GBU, It's the story of 3 men who searchs a tresor in the middle of the killings of the Civil war. We all know this.

In OUTW, I think Leone analyses the importance of the railroad in the colonisation of the west and in the economic growing of the country, and in the middle of all this, a personnal revenge.


I must kindly disagree with you.  Only slightly.  I don't think that the importance of OUTIW was to make a film about the importance of the railroad, I think the film goes more about the entrance of technical revolution, and melancholy because we all lose old values.  It's about an old and a new world.  Harmonica, Frank and Cheyenne belong in the old west, while Jill and Morton stand for the new generation.

« Last Edit: March 06, 2003, 04:23:55 PM by Il Buono » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2003, 10:34:54 AM »

Maybe your answers should be in another direction. I mean, OUTA is not a western, this shows that Leone was already abandoning this genre, and then he almost started, as you said, the shooting of  Leningrad, why didn't he got interested by Vietnam, for example as, to me, a great subject for Leone to exploit? Do you imegine a Leone film about vietnam?Huh?!!!!! Maybe Oliver Stone's would've been child stories compared to this !!!!! I'm exagerating, but what a shame he didn't live enough to exploit, in his superbe style all those " dark " subjects. Shorty Larsen, Vietnam, as you say, is one of America's dark sides related to it's growth, the great 30 years of growth that succeeded the second world war, do you imagine if Leone had introduced his hands in this Huh? And all kind of subjects out of the western genre, what a shame he died...  

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« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2003, 12:39:24 PM »

Il Buono: tout à fait d'accord avec toi.

OUTW represents transition, the lost of something and the beginning of something new, a new era.

The beginning of technical revolution or "industrial revolution" is, to me, represented by the history of railroad in USA. The west expansion and the conquest of the Pacific. The Van Bilt family and the importance of industrial man decisions on the US politics.

Notice that it's an excelent way for Leone, as a metaphore, to say goodbye to the western movies.

Now, about a Vietnam movie: Leone died in 1989. I thnik by 1989 the Vietnam movie genre was exhausted. You already have so many different approaches and visions about Vietnam, Apocalypse Now and Deer Hunter are from the 70's, and Leone was certainly able to see the two other gret Vietnam movies before his death: Platoon (1986) and Full Metal Jacket (1987).

Without any doubt, a Leone movie is always fascinating, even a priori, Leone would certainly give us a new vision of Vietnam and a new opportunity to see his talent for technical photography and camera innovations.

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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2003, 05:00:59 AM »

The only possible answer is: who knows? We all know that after Giù la testa Leone was going to shoot just the movies he wanted to shoot. He even refused The Godfather for fear to be stopped in his project for OUTA, and after OUTA  there was the Leningrad story... both films, or better the ideas, were born form tha reading of a book, so... who knows what would have been the next one?
I read both The Hoods and The 900 days (sources for OUTA and OUTL???  Grin) and though I find them extremely different - heavy and gloomy and grievous the latter, the former funny and easy - they have a common, unquestionable, feature: they interested Leone.
But after that, there are no other things that connect tightly the books, the stories: I don't think there's many people that after OUTA could have guessed his next project.

And now, the Vietnam argument. What you say, Shorty, is right but I think that if the right book would have inspired Leone's cinematographic imagination, we'd have enjoyed a new masterpiece of the genre, even if generally considered already exhausted by the time.

to you all, bye and bye

« Last Edit: March 10, 2003, 05:02:30 AM by TBPJMR » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2003, 08:15:31 AM »

The only possible answer is: who knows? We all know that after Giù la testa Leone was going to shoot just the movies he wanted to shoot. He even refused The Godfather

i have to say, that leone would have flopped in comparison to FFC at doing godfather, not because he is the weaker director because the style would have flopped with the story.  i can't explain but i'm delighted he didn't go ahead with it

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« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2003, 08:19:10 AM »

Leone was already abandoning this genre,

i agree with this, (it is obvious to all, its no opinion but a fact.)  I feel Leone would have been excellent in doing a romance, or a historical movie set away from America.  Mabye China, Italy or whoknows even dear old Blighty but he spent too long on a country, don't get me wrong a fascinating one, which has very little history.  Leone could have done an epic English Civil War story.  Or even a crouching tiger styled movie (minus all the over the top special effects)

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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2003, 09:03:52 AM »

After shooting ouatia, Leone said (in a french newspaper) taht he wanted to do an other western, but he didn't think that the public for western was still there.

When he was thinking to "the 100 days of Stalingrad" (french title), he wanted to do a new trilogie, about "after the american dream".

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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2003, 12:09:10 PM »

Wow, this is really interesting. A trilogy about "after the american dream".

Leone was really fascinated by the history of the US and he certainly would have produce a magnificent work about the "after american dream".

Always, with his particular vision of cinema, photography, camera angles and a great actors directing.

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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2003, 11:42:36 AM »

Do you remember "enemy at the gate" of j.j. annaud?
About this movie, Annaud said:
«Tourner ce film a aussi été pour moi une façon de rendre hommage à Sergio Leone, qui voulait faire un film sur la bataille de Stalingrad. Quand il est mort, j'ai appris qu'il avait pensé à moi pour poursuivre le projet. Pour différentes raisons, je n'avais pas pu le faire.»

which means:

"Doing this movie was for me a kind of hommage to sergio leone, who wanted to do a movie about the battle of stalingrad. When he died, i've learne that he had thought to me for go on the project. For lot of things, i couldn't."

i think i can find a picture of the poster of the project "the 100 days of stalingrad"... wait a moment...

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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2003, 11:47:09 AM »

I'm sorry, the title of the project was: Les 900 jours de Leningrad
which means the 900 days of leningrad.

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« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2003, 11:49:26 AM »

Look here:
http://franckiesmovies.free.fr/Leone.html

this is a french page, but look down... a little picture...

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« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2003, 11:54:26 AM »

Leone talking about the first scene of his project:
"Leningrad, 1942. Chostackovitch joue du piano dans un appartement cossu. Gros plan sur les mains du pianiste. Travelling arrière, la caméra sort de l'appartement par la fenêtre, virevolte sur elle-même (procédé Dolly), survole les rues où la population de Leningrad s'apprête à affronter l'ennemi nazi aux portes de la ville, s'affairant dans tous les sens, la caméra survole les rues, traverse la ville pour rejoindre les collines d'où survient un panzer allemand. La caméra s'arrête sur la bouche de canon et c'est la déflagration. Stop. Générique: "Les 900 Jours de Leningrad".

I'm sorry, i can't translate that... you'll have to ask somebody else, has you know, my english is a little bit "limited".

The principal actor was going to be de niro.

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