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stanton
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« #270 : January 26, 2015, 03:05:05 AM »


The fact that the director went on to make all-time greats should not diminish one's opinion of FOD; to the contrary, it should improve one's opinion of the greatness and preciousness of FOD  :)

Back to Peckinpah. Cause if that is a fact, then it is a fact too for Peckinpah.

The fact that Peckinpah made some all-time greats should then not diminish your opinion of The Wild Bunch; to the contrary, it should improve your opinion of the greatness and preciousness of TWB and other Peckinpah films. 

But it ain't a fact in both cases.


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« #271 : January 26, 2015, 06:40:34 AM »

Whatever its form or excuse, it's worth the 10/10.

You should update your "post your ranking system" thread. If FoD is 10/10 and GBU is way above FoD then your ranking system goes from 1 to 15.



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« #272 : January 26, 2015, 07:57:03 AM »

You should update your "post your ranking system" thread. If FoD is 10/10 and GBU is way above FoD then your ranking system goes from 1 to 15.

 ;D

remember, the ranking is the beginning of the discussion, not the end. There are more than 10 levels (or 20 including halves) of enjoyment of movies. If I used a 1-100 ranking, maybe GBU would be a 100 and FOD would be a 98. But using a 1-10 system, I give FOD a 10/10. Or maybe the greatest of all 9.5/10's. Again, I'm not denying that my opinion of the movie may be improved cuz of the movies Leone went on to make. And I'm not apologizing for it.
This is another one of the many flaws of a ranking system.

Isn't it wonderful how we hijacked a Peckinpah thread to talk about a Leone film   >:D ;D


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« #273 : January 26, 2015, 09:21:35 AM »

remember, the ranking is the beginning of the discussion, not the end.
Words to live by, Lloyd. Words to live by.



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« #274 : January 26, 2015, 09:27:04 AM »

Isn't it wonderful how we hijacked a Peckinpah thread to talk about a Leone film   >:D ;D

The guy is in "Films of Sergio Leone > Other Films". He had it coming.   >:D

Back to Sam once again: I haven't seen the Getaway for years. He's next on my Peckinpah re-watch list. As far as I remember it's a good Peckinpah meets Hollywood movie.
On the other hand, a DVD of Junior Bonner has been sitting on my shelf for over 6 years and I still haven't tried it. You guys have been discussing it lately so once again it's on my to-watch list but I'm really really afraid to find something worst than Convoy.


________________________________________________

Here is how I rank those I have seen:

The Wild Bunch 9/10
His masterpiece

Pat Garett & Billy The Kid 8.5/10
More flawed but more touching The Wild Bunch 2

Straw Dogs 8.5/10
Best pre-Gravity survival

Cross Of Iron 8/10
Really flawed but Coburn + the way they show WW2 + the scene with the Russian women sell the thing

Bring Me The Head Of Alfredo Garcia 7.5/10
Really too cheap/amateurish for its own good but also very powerful

The Getaway 7-7.5/10 ?
Very good 70's thriller + good old Peckinpah action + best romance in a Peckinpah movie + they jump in the lake

Major Dundee  6/10
Powerful but flawed. But notice how I raised its ranking since the start of the discussion. Another 4 or 5 pages and we can bring it to 7.

Ride in the High County 5.5/10
Peckinpah but made for TV

Convoy 4/10
the only one I didn't like, but I saw it only once and was quite young. On the other hand, they destroy buildings with trucks.

« : January 26, 2015, 09:40:07 AM noodles_leone »


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« #275 : January 26, 2015, 12:22:54 PM »

You should watch Junior Bonner. It's good. Also the tv show NOON WINE which has been posted around here.

Back to Leone. FOD is awesome. :D


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« #276 : January 26, 2015, 12:58:24 PM »

Noodles, your rating of Ride the High Country is also insane. And it doesn't look or feel like TV for a second. Are you sure you really watched it?

And if your DVD of Junior Bonner is the European full frame one, throw it immediately in the garbage.


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« #277 : January 26, 2015, 05:11:39 PM »

Noodles, your rating of Ride the High Country is also insane. And it doesn't look or feel like TV for a second. Are you sure you really watched it?

It doesn't look like TV but yes many things in it feels like TV. Everything in this movie that comes directly from Sam raises it way above where it should be. It's just a shitty project that ended up in the best hands. It makes a good movie, in the end. To me, everything above 5 is good. Most movies that are done are under 3/10. This one made by pretty much anyone else would be under 3/10.
I'll give it another shot some day.

And if your DVD of Junior Bonner is the European full frame one, throw it immediately in the garbage.

Thanks, I'll check that. I fear it is the European full frame (don't know for sure but where I bought it they tend to sell the garbage editions... my copy of From Dusk Till Dawn comes from the same place, it's a terrible quality pan and scan that only features French audio).

« : January 26, 2015, 05:13:58 PM noodles_leone »


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« #278 : January 26, 2015, 05:34:12 PM »

To me, everything above 5 is good. Most movies that are done are under 3/10. This one made by pretty much anyone else would be under 3/10.
I'll give it another shot some day.


in all seriousness, I think n_l's rating system and stanton's rating system are very similar. Without going back and checking the thread where we each discussed our rating systems, I recall that you both consider 6/10 to be a good movie.


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« #279 : January 26, 2015, 07:38:41 PM »

And if your DVD of Junior Bonner is the European full frame one, throw it immediately in the garbage.

Talk about a neglected gem. The US DVD is at least widescreen, but it's not even anamorphic.

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« #280 : January 26, 2015, 09:45:59 PM »

yeah, if you just do a straight-up comparison of FOD to FAFDM or GBU or OUATITW, it's no contest; the others are all better. But FOD is a great movie on its own, and if you look at FOD for what it is a first Western by a director working with a tiny budget and an first-time lead movie actor, creating a new prototype of a movie character, a new prototype for the Western, a new prototype of movie hero, hec, a new prototype of movie it's even more precious. Is FAFDM clearly a better movie than FOD? Yes. But if I was gonna be marooned on an island for the rest of my life and could only bring a few movies with me, would I take any non-Leone Western before I take FOD? No.

Ideally, a great artist should start out making great films and then get even better as time goes by but that shouldn't diminish how we view the earlier work.

If Leone had never made another movie, or if he had never made another good movie, would I like FOD as much as I do now? I dn't know. And I don't think about it. All I know is that FOD is a great and very special movie.
The fact that the director went on to make all-time greats should not diminish one's opinion of FOD; to the contrary, it should improve one's opinion of the greatness and preciousness of FOD  :)

I basically agree with everything you've said but there are a lot of US Westerns that I'd take over FOD. But you hit the nail on the head for mentioning its importance as an action movie and a western. As for non-Leone spags, I think I'd only take The Great Silence and Face to Face over it.

It's almost like Mean Streets, people hate on that movie because it doesn't have the scope of Goodfellas and Casino when it's a totally different kind of movie: a coming of age (or lack there of) compared to frenetic coke-rock epics.



Claudia, we need you to appear in LOST COMMAND. It's gonna revolutionize the war genre..
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« #281 : January 26, 2015, 09:59:56 PM »

I basically agree with everything you've said but there are a lot of US Westerns that I'd take over FOD. But you hit the nail on the head for mentioning its importance as an action movie and a western. As for non-Leone spags, I think I'd only take The Great Silence and Face to Face over it.

If Leone had never gone on to make another (good) movie, I can't tell you whether or not I'd take some AW's over FOD. But I don't have to consider that. The situation being as it is now, I absolutely would take FOD over any AW if I was marooned on an island.

If I was gonna be marooned on an island and could only take 6 movies with me for the rest of my life, I'd probably take all Leone movies besides DYS, plus one more movie that I'd have to think about long and hard. Maybe Casablanca, maybe Double Indemnity, maybe The Godfather, maybe Red River, maybe .... well, Thank God I don't have to make these decisions  ;)

That's a good topic question for a thread (or better yet, to continually hijack a Peckinpah thread  ;)) : You're gonna be on an isolated island for the rest of your life and all you can bring with you are six movies (no pornos!) which would you choose?

It's almost like Mean Streets, people hate on that movie because it doesn't have the scope of Goodfellas and Casino when it's a totally different kind of movie: a coming of age (or lack there of) compared to frenetic coke-rock epics.

I love Mean Streets on its own. I absolutely love it. It may well be my favorite Scorsese movie, period. Yeah, the characters are much younger than in Scorsese's later gangster pictures (and there's definitely much more toughness in older characters; I think Cagney was one guy who could really project a great toughness even looking very young) and maybe it's less polished or whatever than some of his other movies, but IMO Mean Streets is a clear-cut all-time great movie even if it was the only movie Scorsese ever made.


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« #282 : January 26, 2015, 10:17:57 PM »

You should make that thread.



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« #283 : January 26, 2015, 10:57:12 PM »

sorry, you'll have to do that  ;)


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« #284 : January 27, 2015, 02:23:07 AM »

It doesn't look like TV but yes many things in it feels like TV. Everything in this movie that comes directly from Sam raises it way above where it should be. It's just a shitty project that ended up in the best hands. It makes a good movie, in the end. To me, everything above 5 is good. Most movies that are done are under 3/10. This one made by pretty much anyone else would be under 3/10.
I'll give it another shot some day.



A shitty project?

It's a milestone of the western genre. A landmark film which was for the cycle of the US twilight westerns a similar starting point like FoD was for the Italian western. Only that Ride the High Country was in its own way already some kind of masterpiece. It is a very personal and deeply felt film by Peckinpah which established a lot of themes and motives which became almost a cliche in 70s westerns. Even OUTW could be viewed as a variation of its ideas. And My Name Is Nobody stand definitely in this tradition, with both feets.
And Lucien Ballards autumnal photography is still outstanding.

And it is a very intelligent western, one in which several typical western motives were turned upside down. There's a lot in it to explore for those who like to interpret movies and find deeper meanings.

I know that your rating is not really bad (9,3 drink scaled), but this film deserves more form one who likes the director.

Junior Bonner is at the moment the Peckinpah film with the worst release. I have no clue why in Europe only an un-watchable full screen version was released. The non anamorphic US release is nothing to write home about either, but at least not an insult. Junior Bonner is overdue for a high quality release. I assume there are maybe problems with the rights.


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