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Author Topic: One thing that came to my mind while looking at the Mexican General.  (Read 5542 times)
SirLancelot
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« on: April 12, 2005, 05:34:08 PM »

That Mexican General who ends up shooting Sean to agony and then gets shot shot and re-shot by Juan.
He looks a lot like a german WW2 officer.
This face, he sure doesnt looks like a mexican, and that egg he eats plus when he brushes his theets...theses are just details, but I cant help myself but to think he's some kind of Nazi...
Now of course at the time WW2 was still a thing to come and the Nazi party wasnt even established...but...

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Sackett
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« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2005, 06:51:17 PM »

I know I'll take some flack for this, but the 'egg sucking commandant' was† named GUNTER RUIZ.† This shows that your assessment is correct in that he is supposed to have some kind of German lineage.
Many believe his name to be Guiterrez, or something like that, but that is simply not the case.† A search of the original cast members shows other acting experiences, pics, etc.† †There actually was a Gen. Guitterez in the film, but he is not the German/Mexican commandant.† †I cannot recall the actor's name right now, but it can be searched out.† He had other acting roles.† If you pursue this, as I have, let me know what you find.
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« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2005, 06:56:41 PM »

wasnt this supposed to be leone's reference to the nazi occupation of italy, with the massacres and all, with Ruiz representing the arrogant fascist commander, even though during the Mexican Revolution there was of course no such thing as a Nazi. Im sure that was fraylings interpretation anyhoo.

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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2005, 02:49:21 AM »

sergio leone talked about this "face of nazi".

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« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2005, 12:29:11 PM »

I have always been under the impresion that the guy was german, and besides he remind of the those evil nazi in the Indiana Jones flicks

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« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2005, 04:17:02 PM »

That Mexican General who ends up shooting Sean to agony and then gets shot shot and re-shot by Juan.
He looks a lot like a german WW2 officer.
This face, he sure doesnt looks like a mexican, and that egg he eats plus when he brushes his theets...theses are just details, but I cant help myself but to think he's some kind of Nazi...
Now of course at the time WW2 was still a thing to come and the Nazi party wasnt even established...but...

This part of the movie was supposed to be a parallel to fascist Italy during WWII, as has already been said, but there is some historical basis for this.  As "The Wild Bunch" also tells us, the Germans were involved in the Mexican Revolution to an extent, shipping arms, supplies, and military advisors to Huerta's government.  In fact, one of the reasons for the US occupation of Vera Cruz in 1914 was that the Germans had been discovered smuggling crates of rifles and ammunition to the Mexican authorities through that city.  And of course the Zimmermann Letter, where Germany offered Mexico the American Southwest if they join the Central Powers . . .

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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2005, 09:44:06 AM »

Another German givaway is his first name, GŁnther. Not very Mexican. The actor was Domingo Antoine, and according the not always reliable imdb.com this was his only picture.

I could be wrong, as my knwoledge of early 20th century Mexican military uniforms is a bit rusty  Wink, but isn't the little red, white and black circular cap badge on GŁnther's hat a German army insignia?

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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2005, 04:28:43 PM »

IMDB messed up big time, Juan.  Domingo Antoine was also known as Antoine St.-John (I believe that's what he was credited as in this film).  So they for some reason decided that Gutierrez and Gunther Ruiz were different characters.  Antoine was also in "My Name Is Nobody", and it's clearly the same guy as "Antoine Saint-John", just using a different name.

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« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2005, 10:28:47 AM »

The Innacurate Movie Data Base.com stikes again, eh?

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« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2005, 06:57:28 AM »

The Innacurate Movie Data Base.com stikes again, eh?

Here's another one I found for this very movie:
Quote
Franco Graziosi - General Huerta

Franco Graziosi is Governor Jaime, as is made abundantly clear by the flashback intercut of the Governor, Juan's dead family, and the poster of the Governor just before the Governor's assassination.  General Huerta never appears in the f-ing movie.  Whoever submitted this needs to get their head kicked in.

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« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2005, 10:34:39 AM »

This part of the movie was supposed to be a parallel to fascist Italy during WWII, as has already been said, but there is some historical basis for this.† As "The Wild Bunch" also tells us, the Germans were involved in the Mexican Revolution to an extent, shipping arms, supplies, and military advisors to Huerta's government.† In fact, one of the reasons for the US occupation of Vera Cruz in 1914 was that the Germans had been discovered smuggling crates of rifles and ammunition to the Mexican authorities through that city.† And of course the Zimmermann Letter, where Germany offered Mexico the American Southwest if they join the Central Powers . . .

Always liked that little connection. WWII Nazi analogy with the reality of Carranza's government being supplied with WWI era Imperial German equipment. Leone was spot on with the detail* as ususal. Slightly hokey tin plated armoured cars, and sharp edged uniforms with leather gauntlets and horses with field protective goggles.

During the campaign most of major equipment (refurbished 'hand me downs' from the WWI front) came to late in the revolution to make a difference. There has been recorded incidents of A7V german tanks (maybe they had the token one) being used to assault fortified villages in Mexico.
By 1915 the Carrancistas Guard was even using the strategy to go along with its new toys. Western front tactics.. Tranches, spotlights, barbwire and laying down huge barrages of MG fire on anything that moved. But not much use against Villa's frontless guerilla warfare.

*One detail problem: John (Coburn's) MG42 German machine gun was about 3 decades to late for the timeline. but who cares.

« Last Edit: August 14, 2005, 10:17:14 AM by The Smoker » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2005, 10:49:37 AM »

I always thought Gunther Ruiz was an Austrian, since the Hapsburgs (an Austrian royal family) actually ruled Mexico for a while. This is why, even now, you can get great Vienna-style amber lager beer from Mexico (such as Dos Equis) -- because the Austrians taught Mexico the art of brewing European beers.

The "Nazi" connection/image is still valid, of course, since Hitler himself was an Austrian.

The actor who plays Ruiz, Antoine St. John, also played the German general in John Milius' THE WIND AND THE LION, in which he has a terrific swordfight with Sean Connery. In the director's commentary track on that DVD, Milius notes that St. John was terrified of horses/riding and would literally hide when it was time for his riding scenes. Which is of course why he only rides a tank in DUCK YOU SUCKER.

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« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2005, 06:13:56 AM »

Good point Concorde; I'd forgotten all about it.

Quote
*One detail problem: John (Coburn's) MG42 German machine gun was about 3 decades to late for the timeline. but who cares.


An honest mistake by Sergio.  Machine gun technology was pretty far along by 1913, so it's likely he just picked a cool-looking MG without caring what year it was from.

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« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2005, 03:36:55 PM »

It's always best to pick the coolest looking weapon.

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« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2005, 08:20:13 AM »


The actor who plays Ruiz, Antoine St. John, also played the German general in John Milius' THE WIND AND THE LION, in which he has a terrific swordfight with Sean Connery. In the director's commentary track on that DVD, Milius notes that St. John was terrified of horses/riding and would literally hide when it was time for his riding scenes. Which is of course why he only rides a tank in DUCK YOU SUCKER.

I noticed him in My Name is Nobody last night. Hes one of Sullivans heavies on the saloon balcony dressed in black. Gets a good slapping from Terence Hill with that boxing scarecrow (Which looks like Bud Spencer strangly enough).† † †

« Last Edit: August 26, 2005, 12:20:35 PM by The Smoker » Logged

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