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Author Topic: Frayling's commentary  (Read 8642 times)
dave jenkins
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« on: April 22, 2005, 11:41:32 PM »

On the commentary for the new FAFDM SE DVD, Frayling actually tells his listeners that Tucumcari is in Mexico! He's making the point that all the towns in the film south of the border look like hell, and all those north of the border look nice. And he uses Tucumcari as an example of a town that looks like hell. Does Sir Chris really not know where New Mexico is?

« Last Edit: April 23, 2005, 07:29:01 AM by Christopher » Logged


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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2005, 04:59:43 AM »

Does Sir Chris really not know where New Mexico is?
His geography may be dodgy but there is no question of his commitment and passion in regards a certain western genre. Hell, we all make mistakes! An ass? Surely not, sir!

« Last Edit: April 23, 2005, 07:33:08 AM by Christopher » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2005, 05:50:44 AM »

I wouldn't go quite that far either, Frayling has got a lot on his plate,  the nuiances of North American geography may not be a strong point. Many SW's show a loose regard for western geographical locations.

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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2005, 07:16:27 AM »

he certainly is the leone authority, and one of the first to champion leone's artistic style, his movies having been derided as populist guff by film historians before. i still think he sucks up to leone a bit much, it sounds like leone was a great director, but a bit of a son-of-a-bitch from the people that worked with him. i think theres room for a biography that portrays him as such.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2005, 07:34:09 AM by Christopher » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2005, 06:11:30 PM »

Getting the location of Tucumcari right is a whole lot easier than telling us what Carlo Simi had for breakfast one morning in 1968. I mean, all you have to do is do a Google search on "Tucumcari."

If that were Frayling's only mistake I'd let it pass, even though it's a howler, but he makes so many that you have to fact-check almost everything he says. Here is another for-instance. (This is not on the commentary, but on the interview documentary on disc 2.) While making a point about the use of religious symbols in Leone's films, we are shown the scene in FAFDM where Indio climbs into the pulpit to deliver his "sermon." Frayling mentions (in passing) that there are 12 people listening, no doubt to cleverly suggest that the gang is a kind of unholy version of the 12 Disciples (this is before Sancho rejoins the gang). This would have been a great point to make, except for the fact that there are 13 people listening to Indio. All you have to do is freeze frame the scene and count heads, but Frayling, apparently, didn't bother to do that (if he had he could have still made his point, using 13 as the number for an Unholy Dozen).

Yes, Frayling has done wonderful things for Leone studies; yes, his heart appears to be in the right place. But he's still an ass.

(BTW, I had never thought of counting bodies before as a way checking continuity, but I just did and it checks out. Monco kills Blackie, Chico and Paco. Mortimer kills Hunchback. Nino kills Silm, Indio kills Knife. Mortimer and Monco between them kill 3 sets of pairs (Sancho is in there somewhere), Groggy kills Nino, Monco gets Groggy. That's 14).

« Last Edit: May 21, 2005, 12:02:30 AM by dave jenkins » Logged


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« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2005, 01:32:58 PM »

You ought to get out more!  Wink

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« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2005, 12:10:20 PM »

Frayling is a man to be respected, he is the sergio leone expert. You should all read Something to do with death, it's a great book.

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« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2005, 06:17:28 PM »

It's a great book with a lot of mistakes.

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« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2005, 07:37:07 PM »

****, i didnt know Tucumcari was in NM, i dont think europeans really care, i know i dont, doesnt really matter neither

but if your entire like is dedicated to sergio (as frayling's clearly is) its pretty obvious that you should do the necessary research on stuff like this

but fraylings allright, i enjoy his commentaries, i was annoyed that the c'era una volta il west commentary kept changing people, it should of just been him

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« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2005, 01:22:03 PM »

Does Sir Chris really not know where New Mexico is?

As Homer Simpson once said when looking at a map of the US, "Ooooooooo. There's a new Mexico!"

I saw Sir Chris give a lecture on Leone at a London gallery just over a year ago. He was fantastic, talking for almost 2 hours on the subject, without notes, and with a great deal of good humour.

He was approachable, pasionate about his subject and occasionaly irritated by memories of the days when other critics were dismissive of Leone's work. He showed some clips, of course, and he did make mistakes while he was talking. Most of these he stopped and corrected, however.

He is a great guy, his book, SOMETHING TO DO WITH DEATH is outstanding, and I'm sure many of us would love to get paid for doing what he does, and does so well. If we can point out some of his errors, fair enough. I imagine he would be interested in hearing about them. We don't have to resort to name calling though, surely, its not like he's Peter Bogdanovich?

« Last Edit: July 26, 2005, 01:24:31 PM by Juan Miranda » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2005, 05:53:21 AM »

but fraylings allright, i enjoy his commentaries, i was annoyed that the c'era una volta il west commentary kept changing people, it should of just been him

I definitely agree with you on that one.  Roll Eyes Goddamned John Carpenter and Alex Cox. . .

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« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2005, 03:20:50 PM »

especially John Carpenter, he really ruined it

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« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2005, 04:18:20 PM »

milius is still the man... and coincidentally the most leone-like director i've ever seen.

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« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2005, 04:27:00 PM »

milius is still the man... and coincidentally the most leone-like director i've ever seen.

Millius's commentary was worthless. . . he was talking about personally meeting Leone or something like that.  I liked his comments in the documentaries, but his stuff for the commentary easily could've been left out.

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« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2005, 04:32:31 PM »

I agree... i only remember him in the interviews i didn't even know he was apart of the commentary... anyway about tucumcari... it's a pretty easy mistake to make, i mean at the time of the setting of the movie, new mexico had only been annexed from mexico for 25-30 years and wast still 30-40 from becoming a state... so it was a territory that was closer to being south of the border than it's eventual statehood.

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