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dave jenkins
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« #15 : July 12, 2007, 10:10:31 PM »

This is an interesting thread, and it's just become an interesting entry in the SL Encyclopedia. Thanks! O0



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« #16 : July 12, 2007, 10:51:47 PM »

I'm so heated about this pathetic prologue. I wish I could burn that segment of the dvd. It's taking up space in the menu! >:(




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« #17 : July 13, 2007, 04:51:17 PM »

its basically propaganda courtesy of ABC


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« #18 : July 14, 2007, 11:42:51 PM »

its basically propaganda courtesy of ABC

It sure is ABC propaganda. I'm honestly surprised they included it on the Special Edition.




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« #19 : July 15, 2007, 09:53:08 AM »

Its part of the lore now I guess. ^-^


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« #20 : July 15, 2007, 07:31:11 PM »

It's part of the history of the presentation of the film. As such, it's an appropriate extra on a DVD, although it should never be considered part of the film.



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« #21 : July 15, 2007, 09:05:29 PM »

I'm so heated about this pathetic prologue. I wish I could burn that segment of the dvd.

 I'm very glad it was included just for curiosities sake.
It was probably the first extra feature I looked for when I bought my German dvd two years ago.




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« #22 : July 16, 2007, 08:33:31 AM »

I'm very glad it was included just for curiosities sake.
It was probably the first extra feature I looked for when I bought my German dvd two years ago.

Yeah, I see what you're saying Firecracker. It's just not part of the film is what I'm saying.




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« #23 : July 16, 2007, 07:53:03 PM »

I find the prologue absolutely hilarious.   The Clint stand-in who's about a foot too short and has a poncho the length of a prom dress...hee hee!  And now he's not just the Man with No Name - he's the Man with No Face!  Just a hat tilting up and down!  Who did they think would fall for this?

And I really don't see why the network thought Joe was amoral, or immoral, for that matter.  Silvanito tells him very early on that the Baxters and the Rojos are killing the town, and Joe ends up ridding the town of them.  True, he profits from it, but he could have profitted by simply joining one of the gangs himself.  And it's made clear from the beginning that one of Joe's main motives for staying in San Miguel is the plight of Marisol.  The very first thing that catches Joe's attention when he arrives in the town is the crying, bullied child and the imprisoned woman.  He is haunted by them, and his saving of the little family is courageous, compassionate and entirely altruistic.

Joe also comes back and saves Silvanito when he could have escaped the potential vengeance of the Rojos.  About the only scene where I find his morality questionable is when, hiding in Piripero's coffin, he stops to watch the murder of the Baxters.  But by this point his face is so battered that it's difficult to tell what he feels: it might be satisfaction, it might be partly guilt, or it might simply be curiousity.  But since he didn't set up that particular situation - the Rojos made their own assumption that Joe was hiding with the Baxters  and wanted an excuse to murder them - Joe can't be blamed for the cruelty of it.

The samurai in Yojimbo didn't need a prologue, and Joe doesn't need one either.  As was posted earlier, the prologue actually makes Joe's actions more selfish, rather than the other way around.  I prefer the idea that he saved the town for his own reasons...even including a fistful of dollars!

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« #24 : July 18, 2007, 11:04:47 PM »

Great post tokyorose!




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« #25 : July 19, 2007, 03:22:34 PM »

agreed!, great post.

when I was a kid I actually memorized these films so I could tell my cousins about them, I figured they'd never get on TV.


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« #26 : July 19, 2007, 03:38:24 PM »

Let me add my voice to the chorus: An astute post, TR!



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« #27 : July 19, 2007, 06:17:15 PM »

Aw shucks.  T'warn't nothin'.  And I forgot to mention that Joe gives Marisol a fistful of dollars to provide for her family until they are settled in their new home.   He also refuses to tell Ramon her whereabouts, enduring torture and risking death.

Although she only speaks ten words in the entire film, Marisol plays a very important role in revealing Joe's moral side.  When Joe smiles at her in the first scene (the first hint we have of his humanity) she slams the window, furious that he has stood by and done nothing to help her or her family.  She, like the audience, does not yet understand that Joe is not indifferent: he is simply biding his time.  However, during the hostage exchange when one of Ramon's men threatens to kill her husband, she sees Joe's deliberate move forward stop the would-be murderer.  When Joe wisely advises her to proceed with the exchange and get little Jesus to safety, Marisol's look is one of silent realization and gratitude, a visual signal to the audience of just how much Joe has done for this woman.

After Joe rescues Marisol from the small house and urges her to leave with her family, Marisol turns and, almost as proxy for the audience, asks the motivation for all he has done. In so doing, she lifts Joe's emotional veil in a way that is never again done for the Man with No Name.  It is as Doctor Watson once said of Sherlock Holmes, "For the one and only time I caught a glimpse of a great heart, as well as of a great brain..." 

Again, it's as though the creators of that prologue never saw this.  Or perhaps they were used to dramas where the audience is assumed to be stupid and is beaten over the head with explicit and repetitive dialogue.  By contrast, Leone challenges his audience to piece the story together using images, music, juxtaposition and symbolism.  This is why his films can be enjoyed over and over again.  As the viewer becomes more and more skilled, he can perceive more and more nuances to the story and characters.

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« #28 : July 19, 2007, 06:23:40 PM »

Again, it's as though the creators of that prologue never saw this.  Or perhaps they were used to dramas where the audience is assumed to be stupid and is beaten over the head with explicit and repetitive dialogue.  By contrast, Leone challenges his audience to piece the story together using images, music, juxtaposition and symbolism.  This is why his films can be enjoyed over and over again.  As the viewer becomes more and more skilled, he can perceive more and more nuances to the story and characters.

It was definitely this, TR.

I was like the book people in the film Fahrenheit 451, when that prologue came on I was floored


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« #29 : July 19, 2007, 09:43:48 PM »

It sure is ABC propaganda. I'm honestly surprised they included it on the Special Edition.

they didn't
It was courtesy of a fan who taped it.

The story of the guy who taped it is hilarious and bears repeated viewings- unlike the prologue.


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