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: John Wayne as Frank?  ( 23618 )
Groggy
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« #45 : July 17, 2007, 06:36:31 AM »

The amusing thing of your post is that a lot of Communists, at least in the US, were WASPs (Alger Hiss, Harry Dexter White. . .) - unless you're adhering tot he stereotype that all Communists are filthy, bearded foreigners.

Anyone doubting the existence of Soviet spies in America in the '50s, after the release of the Venona Project archives, is just being willfully ignorant at this point, so let's not have another debate about McCarthyism please.

http://www.nsa.gov/venona/index.cfm

Well, Wayne was the target of various plots against his life. One involved two Communist agents trying to kill him in his home in CA. The story goes that they were Soviet agents, but they may have just been American Communists who were pissed off at Wayne. There was also a Chinese sniper hired by Mao Zedong to assassinate Wayne while he visiting Vietnam in 1966. So there was some threat to him by them. It didn't originate his distaste towards Communist, but it fanned it to giant heights.



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« #46 : July 17, 2007, 08:23:16 AM »

Groggy, thanks for your post. I agree with you wholeheartedly, but I offer a qualification. One doesn't have to be personally threatened by a group/movement/ideology before one takes action. Threats to others, to one's belief system, to one's culture are sufficient warrant. Communism was one of the most pernicious movements ever devised, which, regardless of rhetoric, aimed in fact at eradicating the human spirit. Nothing was more natural than to oppose it and it's agents, beings who, though sometimes well intentioned, sought our subjugation. I have no problem with the Duke's anti-Communism, regardless of how Communism did or did not affect Wayne personally.



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« #47 : July 17, 2007, 08:33:01 AM »

Communism is maybe the best idea ever on paper but the only bad thing with it is that it doesn't work in real life  ;D


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« #48 : July 17, 2007, 08:44:35 AM »

Communism is maybe the best idea ever on paper but the only bad thing with it is that it doesn't work in real life  ;D

A very generous idea... may be not a good idea... It is for humanity, but against humans.



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« #49 : July 17, 2007, 08:49:17 AM »

Hm... I think he was good actor, but he played always the same type. He had very good roles - what I have seen: Red River, but as a person, I don't like him. It's a pity he hated SWs... perhaps for they are much betterd more artistic
than the most of his movies? He hated communists, strangers, also, he was a typical WASP in bad meaning...

But I would like to see him as a cold-blood murderer.  ;D

I hate the fact he didn't like SW's, but that's his personal preference I guess. I actually respect John Wayne as a person totally. He didn't speak about his private life in public like a lot of actors do today which pisses me off. He stood by what he believed in which I also respect. He also was not a liberal which I love. haha but that's just me.




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« #50 : July 17, 2007, 03:23:23 PM »

Groggy, thanks for your post. I agree with you wholeheartedly, but I offer a qualification. One doesn't have to be personally threatened by a group/movement/ideology before one takes action. Threats to others, to one's belief system, to one's culture are sufficient warrant. Communism was one of the most pernicious movements ever devised, which, regardless of rhetoric, aimed in fact at eradicating the human spirit. Nothing was more natural than to oppose it and it's agents, beings who, though sometimes well intentioned, sought our subjugation. I have no problem with the Duke's anti-Communism, regardless of how Communism did or did not affect Wayne personally.

I can only agree. Collectivist ideologies never work, at least not for the better.



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« #51 : July 17, 2007, 09:18:02 PM »

Groggy, do you think that you will find potential anti-American info about the Cold War on a US govt. website?



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« #52 : July 18, 2007, 01:51:21 AM »

I say let's let politic in peace.

Return to John.

I imagine as he says:
"Keep your lovin' brother happy..."
It would be hard. The only matter is that Fonda was very thin and John... wasn't.

And... what's John Wayne's eye color? I've seen him only in black and white...


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« #53 : July 18, 2007, 05:02:49 AM »

Groggy, do you think that you will find potential anti-American info about the Cold War on a US govt. website?

Not sure what your point is. . .



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« #54 : July 18, 2007, 05:29:01 AM »

Quote
In the Inside The Actor Studio with Clint Eastwood as guest, Clint says that Don Siegel, who was directing John Wayne in a movie, asked Wayne to shoot sby in the back. Wayne answered that it is not even thinkable. Siegel said "Clint Eastwood would have done it." and Wayne: "I don't care what that boy would have done; i'm not doing it".

Thanx for the quotation. That should put an end to the thread.


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« #55 : July 18, 2007, 05:49:10 AM »

LOL, I actually remember that episode of ITAS, and I haven't seen it in years. (I can't stand James Lipton so I tend to avoid that show unless someone I really love is on it.) I remember the audiences reaction to Clint saying that, it was hysterical.  ;D



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« #56 : July 18, 2007, 06:54:08 AM »

They tried to kill John Wayne or his family?  ???

Well, in my homeland was 40 years of "communism" (it was only "builded")... it wasn't good, but after 1960 it became soft. Life was easier and everyone had a job (that means not he had anything interesting to do). Today is here capitalism, but it doesn't work better... :)
Interesting.
As in Duck, you sucker, you sound like Sean saying something like: «before I used to believe in everything and now I just believe in dynamite».


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« #57 : July 18, 2007, 06:59:49 AM »

Communism is maybe the best idea ever on paper but the only bad thing with it is that it doesn't work in real life  ;D
Through history, the only type of communism we have seen is «State Capitalism».
Communism as Marx imagined it has never been realized.
Not likely to in the near future, either: «Workers of the world unite» I wonder.


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« #58 : July 18, 2007, 07:21:14 AM »

OFF

Comm doesn't work, cap. doesn't too...  :)

See The Tragedy of Man: there is a scene in London, critic of capitalism and the Falanster scene, critic of socialism.


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« #59 : July 18, 2007, 08:06:02 AM »

Through history, the only type of communism we have seen is «State Capitalism».
Communism as Marx imagined it has never been realized.
Not likely to in the near future, either: «Workers of the world unite» I wonder.
That's exactly what I mean. People are greed, have always been and will always be. They don't want to share, they want to own. I'm not advocating communism because I know it's never gonna happen as Marx meant, but I'm in advocary of joint liability: free health care and such at least (I know that means taxes, but if you give, you get also).

Sorry Jill, it seems this is now getting pretty political and off-topic  ;D


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