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Author Topic: An ancient race  (Read 11636 times)
Beebs
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« on: June 15, 2005, 10:23:09 AM »

I've lately been tryin to figure out the line Charles Bronson gives when he says "so you found out your not a business man after all" "just a man" "an ancient race. then (or soon Im not sure) other mortals'll be along, and wipe them out"  I found it funny, I thnk he says "them out" as if not including himself.

Anybody got any ideas, I think Gramps can help out here.

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grandpa_chum
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« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2005, 10:55:59 AM »

Frank: Morton once told me I could never be like him. Now I understand why. Wouldn't have bothered him, knowing you were around somewhere alive.

Harmonica: So, you found out you're not a businessman after all.
 
Frank: Just a man.

Harmonica: An ancient race. Other Mortons will be along, and they'll kill it off.

Frank: The future don't matter to us. Nothing matters now - not the land, not the money, not the woman. I came here to see you. 'Cause I know that now, you'll tell me what you're after.

Harmonica: ...Only at the point of dyin'.

Frank: I Know

My take on what I consider the greatest of all quotes/dialogue from any movie-

To me it's really about 3 things... First there is the whole western movie idea, they are a dying breed, JUST MEN who go out and do what they believe to be right no matter what others say nor how much money they throw at them. Everything that, I believe, Leone loved about the west, in the movie anyway, was being killed off by mortons, oportunists out for the big bucks who will sweep out anything in their way. I also think the fact that he says that "morton's will come along and they'll kill IT off" instead of them is important in understanding what he said(probably your point of discretion). I personally think IT  are those things that don't have a price, things which real men like harmonica and McBain did in the old west before "morton's'" came along and killed it off. Harmonica, frank(at the end anyhow), and McBain were men of an ancient race, men that didn't live by the money they made, but just did what they had to do, what they thought was right, whether people thought it was right or wrong.... Instead all the MEN disapear and are replaced by businessmen doing what they had to do to get more money.

Secondly I think it's a capper on the idea of the dying west, not only in terms of the setting (as above), but in terms of movies themselves. Leone may have made a great western, but it's a dying genre, other morton's will come along and they'll kill it off. Sure it's a stretch that he actually meant anything like that by it, but i definitly think if you read into it, it does apply.

Third, I just love the exchange because it's the perfect lead in to the final duel for revenge. They say how they are the last of a dying breed. Frank knew he couldn't go on knowing there was someone out there that had it in for him, he had to stand up to that. And he didn't care about the land, the money, or the woman, he just knew there was a score to settle and I think he knew he was probably going to die. It's all about the code of the old west(in the movies anyhow), if someone has a score to settle you meet em head on, half way, and you don't give up. Morton's hire men to make them more money, they don't settle scores, and if somebody comes after them they run, they were killing off the code, even if just in a fictitious world, that is pretty symbolic of the way a lot of people feel about life, right or wrong it's near impossible to be JUST A MAN, morton's have ruined that, it's all about business now... in fact it's really been one of the primary struggles of mankind... doing what you believe is right, or doing what will help you gain material.

« Last Edit: June 15, 2005, 11:01:59 AM by grandpa_chum » Logged

Harmonica: So, you're not a businessman after all.
Frank: Just a man.
Harmonica: An ancient race...
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« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2005, 12:30:46 PM »

Nice explanation, grandpa_chum

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Beebs
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« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2005, 04:57:56 PM »

Wow Gramps, that is exactly how I feel. Give or take some. I feel the same applies to farming. Farmer are usually said as "an honest farmer" someone who works for their own and doesn't depend on someone else killing food for them. they can get it themselves. Hunting falls in here. I have friends that ask how can you kill "innocent" animals. I say, "Listen, Buster, humans are apart of the food chain too. and there's no better feeling than to not depend on someone else for your own FOOD.  Gives you a feeling of self relieance and confidence.

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Beebs
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« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2005, 05:03:39 PM »

Sorry for the accidental bump of the post button.

Back to the west. Back then a man couldn't call another a liar or theif and get away with it. he had to be able to back it up. It could mean death. On the other hand a man could get in a fight with out a law suit crap. No one was "special". You had a right to protect yourself and if you couldn't, maybe you werent supposed to be where you are. if you got the picture you could go be a Morton. Morton's cripple was showing that he couldn't use that right to protect himself; he did it indirectly. Using paper and gold to get his protection. The just a man's race was composed of men who could protect themselves and went on to hold honor in their name. their word and a handshake was sufficient because bein called a liar was worh something. now idiot and liar are just children's words.  Check out a thread I did called Western Art or something like that in General Discussion.

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Leonardo
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2005, 06:52:23 AM »

My take on what I consider the greatest of all quotes/dialogue from any movie-
Fully agree, Grandpa. Powerful dialogue which I have never forgotten since I first saw the movie in 1968...and wonderfully explained by yourself: congrats!

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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2005, 11:33:38 AM »

I always like how Leone introduces characters that belong to irrelevant stories, they become intertwined into one big plot and story after like 45 minutes or so and then in the last half hour all the questions are answered, all the lines of the plot are tied up and everything comes to such a satisfying ending and there's usually only two people standing in the ruins of everything like two pillars in a destroyed Greek temple and that's where the heart of the story lies and I think Sergio did it the best in this movie.(Wow, that was one long sentence)
I like how everyone has died, everything has gone down and they're the only ones left in the midst of the building of the new West going on all around them and they settle their score in the ruins of the kind of cirlces they dueled in back in the old West, like in FAFDM and GBU. Never has Sergio's formula ever had such an importance to the story than that. The whole entire story is one giant Leone trademark using old American westerns as his canvas.

Wow, only two sentences and all of that Tongue

« Last Edit: June 16, 2005, 11:38:49 AM by Poggle » Logged
Dlanor
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« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2005, 01:21:31 AM »

. other mortals'll be along,

 Grin, yeah, intersting interpretation. Replace the "als" by "ons", and that's a whole different movie! Wink

« Last Edit: June 20, 2005, 01:25:43 AM by Dlanor » Logged
Beebs
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« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2005, 11:17:03 AM »

Grin, yeah, intersting interpretation. Replace the "als" by "ons", and that's a whole different movie! Wink

Haha, ya sorry guys. I should have looked up the script. Completely different.

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The Firecracker
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« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2006, 10:47:06 AM »

I have friends that ask how can you kill "innocent" animals. I say, "Listen, Buster, humans are apart of the food chain too. and there's no better feeling than to not depend on someone else for your own FOOD.  Gives you a feeling of self relieance and confidence.



well I think it is a bit of a waste to kill an animal for food when you already have a fridge full of the stuff!

I can understand if you NEED to live off the land otherwise you will die, but I find it a little unsettling those hunters who hunt just for the sake of it.

I dont see what confidence anybody can recieve from killing a small defenseless animal.

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« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2006, 12:32:00 PM »

IMO, I think there's nothing wrong with killing an animal for food. Animals eat other animals and what most people forget is that humans are animals too! I think it's wrong if you kill an animal and do not use the body ( food ). In other words, I think it's ok to kill an animal for food but it's wrong if you kill it just to hunt and make you feel like a big man. But that's just my opinion!  Grin

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franksgrandson
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« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2006, 02:23:47 PM »

this is the scene of the whole film everything builds to this moment when Frank comes to face his destiny I never tire of seeing this, Fonda is at his best.
Jill and Cheyenne are also building to this with the Whittling on a peice of wood speach.
To try to explain these scenes to people who have not seen the movie is impossible, my sixteen year old daughter recently sat up one night with me and watched West and thought it was awsome now she is a Leone nut as well she cannot decide between West and GBU as her favourite.

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MORTON ONCE TOLD ME I COULD NEVER BE LIKE HIM, NOW I UNDERSTAND WHY
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« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2006, 08:36:19 PM »

IMO, I think there's nothing wrong with killing an animal for food. Animals eat other animals and what most people forget is that humans are animals too! I think it's wrong if you kill an animal and do not use the body ( food ). In other words, I think it's ok to kill an animal for food but it's wrong if you kill it just to hunt and make you feel like a big man. But that's just my opinion!  Grin

that is exactly what I explained in my last post. Nothing manly about killing a small defenseless animal.

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« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2006, 04:20:27 AM »

that is exactly what I explained in my last post. Nothing manly about killing a small defenseless animal.
The missus won't watch Face To Face because of Bennet shooting the rabbit,and i dare not show her Cemetery Without Crosses in which a rabbit is "knuckled" hard on the skull resulting in disturbing twithching and blood pouring-i didn't care too much for this!

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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2006, 11:09:47 AM »

The missus won't watch Face To Face because of Bennet shooting the rabbit,and i dare not show her Cemetery Without Crosses in which a rabbit is "knuckled" hard on the skull resulting in disturbing twithching and blood pouring-i didn't care too much for this!
at least it was done to eat Banjo.

Bennet had plenty off rations and shot it anyway.

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