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: Blondie Tuco Cannon Scene Reconstruct (note: large image file!)  ( 56663 )
stanton
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« #30 : December 12, 2010, 05:55:51 AM »

Why caring about these absolutely minor continuity problems?

The cannon piece is too much over the top and would spoil the mood of this scene. In every respect completely wrong at this point of the film. The Socorro scene would make the film too long at a point where the film is already shortly before loosing the narrative focus.

GBU works very well in the shorter versions (around 160 min), most of us had lived with for decades. The longer version has already a few not necessary parts, and the so called "Cave scene" should never have been included. You can't make a film longer and longer. Sometimes it serves a film even to delete good scenes, especially when they work against the film's inner rhythm.


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« #31 : December 12, 2010, 09:33:08 AM »

Yeah, I'd have to agree. There's really no purpose putting ALL of the cut material back in the movie. Just put those deleted/missing/whatever scenes on a separate section of the disc, and all is forgiven.




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« #32 : December 12, 2010, 10:33:42 PM »

I may be in the minority here, but every time I watch the French trailer and I see the clip of the cannon misfiring and Tuco staring dumbfoundedly at the collapsed cannon, I wish that comical scene made the final cut. Nevertheless, based on the info I posted above, the full scene was apparently shot more than once and SL opted for the alternate (i.e. shorter) scene rather than merely cutting the tuco/cannon portion out.


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« #33 : December 13, 2010, 03:32:15 AM »

Why caring about these absolutely minor continuity problems?

The cannon piece is too much over the top and would spoil the mood of this scene. In every respect completely wrong at this point of the film. The Socorro scene would make the film too long at a point where the film is already shortly before loosing the narrative focus.

GBU works very well in the shorter versions (around 160 min), most of us had lived with for decades. The longer version has already a few not necessary parts, and the so called "Cave scene" should never have been included. You can't make a film longer and longer. Sometimes it serves a film even to delete good scenes, especially when they work against the film's inner rhythm.

Leone liked making long films/ telling long stories, didn't he?

I rest my case. :)

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« #34 : December 13, 2010, 05:48:46 AM »

Leone liked making long films/ telling long stories, didn't he?



Yes, but that doesn't mean that his films can't become too long.  For me Giu la testa is too long in the first half.

In the end it is of course a matter of tastes, if a film is for someone too long, or the other way round too short.


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« #35 : December 13, 2010, 08:43:40 AM »

I may be in the minority here, but every time I watch the French trailer and I see the clip of the cannon misfiring and Tuco staring dumbfoundedly at the collapsed cannon, I wish that comical scene made the final cut. Nevertheless, based on the info I posted above, the full scene was apparently shot more than once and SL opted for the alternate (i.e. shorter) scene rather than merely cutting the tuco/cannon portion out.

If you look at all the british/europe trailers for the dollars trilogy (see my thread on this in the fafdm section)- you'll see that every shot used in these trailers (including the GBU french one) is actually a different take (and sometimes a different angle of the same action) than the one that appears in the final film. I think they simply gave their trims to the trailer guys instead of duplicating the actual takes (probably because the trailers were assembled early on in the editorial process).

This technique of using alternate takes instead of duplicating your selected take goes all the way back to metropolis - the recently found argentine version not only has the "lost" scenes, but also contains 80% (only the effect shots are duped) different takes of all the performances.

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« #36 : December 13, 2010, 11:57:51 AM »

Good info, Jordan. I was comparing the GBU French trailer with the film the other day and I realized that even the less conspicuous shots were alternate takes or shot at different angles. I haven't scrutinized the other $$ film trailers yet but I'll start off by reviewing your thread.


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« #37 : December 13, 2010, 10:41:08 PM »

Yes, but that doesn't mean that his films can't become too long.  For me Giu la testa is too long in the first half.

In the end it is of course a matter of tastes, if a film is for someone too long, or the other way round too short.

If I remember correctly, Leone did not trim his films because he wanted to, but rather because he was forced by UA, Paramount, etc. I think that if it was up to him, the final cuts of his movies would have been so long that they would have to show them as miniseries. ;)

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« #38 : December 15, 2010, 12:39:42 AM »


GBU works very well in the shorter versions (around 160 min)


Yes it does.
The international cut has many unnecessary scenes and the 2004 bastardized cut just adds insult to injury.
The aforementioned American cut is leaner and meaner but I do wish the Van Cleef visiting the downed confederate fort was reinstated into that version.




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« #39 : December 15, 2010, 02:44:03 AM »

We have now a version with a 179 min runtime. The Italian version is mostly given with 180 min or sometimes 182 min.

Cut the Cave scene out, which was maybe originally cut out between the world premiere and the theatrical release, we have a 176 min runtime which could be called the DC.  
According to a book by Oreste de Fornari  some of the other scenes (he mentions Tuco's foot bath) had also been cut after the Premiere, but were restored for a 1983 re-release.

Of these other scenes for me 2 are unnecessary:

1. The one in which Tuco asks for the way to the mission.
2. Blondy and Sentenza after they left the prison camp are disturbed in their night rest by Sentenza's men.

#1 is completely unnecessary and # 2 isn't necessary for the story, but has a funny dialogue about "counting machines". But it is shot with a bad looking day for night filter, and doesn't add anything to the characters we did not know anyway. Both together are about 3 min long.

The other 5 scenes or parts of scenes should be in imo, especially Sentenza at the ruined fort (4 min), Tuco's foot bath (2 min) and more of the drunk Captain at the bridge (beneath 1 min).

This makes a runtime of 173 min, and would be the perfect cut imo.

« : December 15, 2010, 02:49:08 AM stanton »

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« #40 : December 15, 2010, 03:18:17 AM »

We have now a version with a 179 min runtime. The Italian version is mostly given with 180 min or sometimes 182 min.

Cut the Cave scene out, which was maybe originally cut out between the world premiere and the theatrical release, we have a 176 min runtime which could be called the DC.  
According to a book by Oreste de Fornari  some of the other scenes (he mentions Tuco's foot bath) had also been cut after the Premiere, but were restored for a 1983 re-release.

Of these other scenes for me 2 are unnecessary:

1. The one in which Tuco asks for the way to the mission.
2. Blondy and Sentenza after they left the prison camp are disturbed in their night rest by Sentenza's men.

#1 is completely unnecessary and # 2 isn't necessary for the story, but has a funny dialogue about "counting machines". But it is shot with a bad looking day for night filter, and doesn't add anything to the characters we did not know anyway. Both together are about 3 min long.

The other 5 scenes or parts of scenes should be in imo, especially Sentenza at the ruined fort (4 min), Tuco's foot bath (2 min) and more of the drunk Captain at the bridge (beneath 1 min).

This makes a runtime of 173 min, and would be the perfect cut imo.

We think the same.

Not to mention, Eli Wallach's voice.




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« #41 : December 15, 2010, 04:13:02 AM »

We have now a version with a 179 min runtime. The Italian version is mostly given with 180 min or sometimes 182 min.

Cut the Cave scene out, which was maybe originally cut out between the world premiere and the theatrical release, we have a 176 min runtime which could be called the DC.  
According to a book by Oreste de Fornari  some of the other scenes (he mentions Tuco's foot bath) had also been cut after the Premiere, but were restored for a 1983 re-release.

Of these other scenes for me 2 are unnecessary:

1. The one in which Tuco asks for the way to the mission.
2. Blondy and Sentenza after they left the prison camp are disturbed in their night rest by Sentenza's men.

#1 is completely unnecessary and # 2 isn't necessary for the story, but has a funny dialogue about "counting machines". But it is shot with a bad looking day for night filter, and doesn't add anything to the characters we did not know anyway. Both together are about 3 min long.

The other 5 scenes or parts of scenes should be in imo, especially Sentenza at the ruined fort (4 min), Tuco's foot bath (2 min) and more of the drunk Captain at the bridge (beneath 1 min).

This makes a runtime of 173 min, and would be the perfect cut imo.

me three  O0


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« #42 : December 15, 2010, 12:10:06 PM »

I'll be the dissenting voice here.  >:D

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« #43 : May 01, 2011, 10:39:25 AM »

me three  O0

I'll make it four. This seems like a nice tight cut of the film.

I'm actualy glad that the SL used the shorter version of the canon scene.
The film was bearing down on the climax like a runaway train, and the extra bits with Tuco returning fire would have slamed the brakes on the momentum at the wrong time IMO.


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« #44 : August 22, 2011, 04:45:26 PM »

While digging for more info/pics I came across a higher resolution image of Tuco aiming the cannon:



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