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: I hate it when SW's are made "campy"  ( 17107 )
grandpa_chum
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« #30 : August 06, 2005, 09:52:56 AM »

first of all i agree that tarantino doesn't deserve to shine leone's shoes in the world of cinema... but he is a good and legitimate director, he's not a rip off artist or anything like that, he never claimed to creating any new genres or even revolutionizing him, I think alot of you have the same problem i have, it's not that tarantino is that bad, it's that he gets way too much credit, from idiot fans and the media who want to sell things to them... I personally refused to like tarantino for years because of it, but then i overlooked it and he's JUST making movies, he may not be revolutionizing anything and he's certainly not going to touch any of the real greats, but he does have merit, his films are ligitimate, anyone who says he's a rip off artist or anything like that is a big lying hipocritical piece of shit, specially when if most of us made any films we wouldn't even bother to be 'inspired' by 1,000's of different movies, my guess is it would be 5 or 6(you can guess what they might be), there is nothing wrong with that, but i'd hate to be called a rip off artist for it.


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« #31 : August 06, 2005, 11:17:44 AM »

Well if I understand correctly, knoweldge will be useless to you if you haven't got talent or a gift. Some people in cinema school should learn tons of thing, or people should rent thousand of videos, it'll be useless to them if they haven't got talent.


You say that but there are quite a few directors that disprove your point, look at Paul WS Anderson who admits he had to lie and cheat to get in the film industry. I think really, its who you know (ie impress with knowledge) and what experience you have (he had a little) Thats to become a filmmaker, now to be a talented filmmaker...


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« #32 : August 06, 2005, 11:58:48 AM »

haha... thats because paul ws anderson has no talent... he probably learned too much in film school, he learned how to be a talentless hack who makes boatloads of money.


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« #33 : August 06, 2005, 12:23:55 PM »

Without Leone there wouldn't be action, "crime films", and explicitly graphic war movies.  He loved Dime store Western stories and the fabled West. He wanted to live in a world with outlaws and gunfighters when he was a child. He also was an avid historian on the Civil War. He wanted to recreate those worlds on film and he did.

What has Tarantino done? What revolutionary technical advances has he made? Leone's PM shot in Techniscope and those beautiful wide shots, Ennio Morricone scored a musical theme to each character, the costumes, historical reference used, symbols of the Holocaust, and on and on.

Tarantino a great filmmaker? All I ask is HOW???


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« #34 : August 06, 2005, 01:28:04 PM »

i never said he was anywhere near as good as leone... and lets not get carried away with leone's influences... he's influential and he basically created the spaghetti western... but 'crime films' or 'gritty war films' c'mon, although i believe he's the best director who ever lived, this sounds like tarantino fanboy stuff, leone didn't invent film photography or anything(although some fanboys would argue Q did)... i'm not saying he's worthy of leone status, i'm just saying don't shit on him because his fanboys and the media do in fact GIVE him leone status... with scorsese, allen, and eastwood ready to die, soon he'll be one of the few things us old school film fans have left.


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« #35 : August 06, 2005, 01:37:08 PM »

Leone was found of American westerns wich was the genre at the mood in its time, when he was a child. He used to spend a lot of time in theaters, and this genre contributed to influence him as a director. Tarantino was found of the movies wich were aired at his time, in the seventies and the eighties, and the same way as Leone , he used to  spent his time in cinemas.
 My point is, if Leone had lived at Tarantino's time, he would have had the same interests. BOTH were made by films belonging to their OWN time. And in a way both of their work has something to do with parody.

Tarantino is also a writer. He says he likes good stories. He has more literary gift than visual artistic gift. He wrote the scenarios of his films plus many others. And he is also an actor.

Here is an interview of him where he speak about the genre he would have invented: crime films
http://industrycentral.net/director_interviews/QT02.HTM
And Melville has more influenced him than Leone for that.
What did Tarantino is made himself known by the youngest generation, the teens know him whereas only a few teens know Leone. Maybe it's time to pass the torch.

« : August 06, 2005, 02:22:58 PM Dlanor »
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« #36 : August 06, 2005, 04:24:01 PM »

I like most of Tarrantino's films, but I wouldn't consider myself a big fan.

Having said that, I don't think he's a rip off whatsoever.

Most director's "steal" from other films. I was in film school for a year, and one thing I remember is a teacher telling us to watch as many movies as we can, so we could "plagiarize." Yep, that's right. Steal shots from other films.

For a quick example, for anyone who has seen Land of the Dead, there's shots of the zombies' heads coming up out of water after they've crossed a river. Carnival of Souls has an almost identical sequence in it.

It isn't stealing the material, just being influenced by it to help yourself out. It just so happens that Quentin has made a career out of it, and he's so open about what has influenced him. That's one thing I admire about him.

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« #37 : August 07, 2005, 04:59:25 AM »

Agreed Chris, but the vis a vis Land of the Dead, Romero had written before the movie that the zombies out of water shot was taken from Carnival of  Souls. I think the line is what is an intertextual referance (LOTD could have worked absolutely fine without this, admittedly effective, homage) and a reliance on plot points and elements from other films, which I think we are all saying that QT is guilty of.
I was talking with an editor last week about an upcoming Guy Ritchie film, now I'm not a huge fan of the mans work (I hate how the only good thing the Brit film industry churns out is sh... it mean gritty gangster films or cute romantic comedies, and they ask why were an industry on the verge of dying?) but he has Leone influences and he uses them much more effectively then QT does.


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« #38 : August 07, 2005, 10:28:24 AM »

After working in the film business for coming up to 10 years, the majority of movies being made are crap. The studios are after the bottom-line and creativity gives way to star power and formula.  I can count on one hand how many films I've crewed on that I have actually liked. This argument can go on forever because everyone has a different view and opinion, so we all might as well agree to disagree. :)

I my humble opinion, I don't think that Tarantino is a good writer at all. From insider information he has a habit of claiming credit for others contributions and being an overall jerk of a person. That is why I find him quite grating. I know there are a lot of "difficult" filmmakers and that doesn't mean they aren't extremely talented, but I just don't think Tarantino has true talent.
And even if some of the old icons are elderly, their influence won't die out.  Film history will prevail and new film fans should check it out and not just except the flavour of the moment.

Look at Robert Rodriguez...he's great. He made El Mariachi in film school. Tarantino collaborated with him in Desperado but I don't think Tarantino added any special touch. Tarantino has a STYLE that people either like or don't. Styles and talent that will survive the ages are two totally different things.
 


Tuco Benedito Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez
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