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Author Topic: YOJIMBO VS. FFOD  (Read 42938 times)
jouissance
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« on: April 01, 2003, 05:58:06 PM »

Fellow Brethern,

First, lets be honest, Leone totally copied YOJIMBO.

But second, Kurosawa did his own copying from an American story (according to Something to do with death).

Third and most importantly, Leone's FFOD is by far superior...

Case in point:
1. Leone's introduction of Marisol from the beginning and Clint's building relationship with her is by far more powerful that Kurosawa's - It also produces mystery and tension throughout the first act and a good part of the second act - lastly, Ramon's desire to have Marisol returned is more strongly established than the Kurosawa's version, created a more intense explosion for the finally.

2. The idea that these Lord's would allow the Yojimbo to go back and forth and play them such fools is silly and maybe that's funny to the Japanese but I found it tiresome. Leone's who clock and dagger of the anti-hero made it so much better because we all know the dude is going to pay for it.

3. Leone's pacing is right on and in YOJIMBO, I found the pacing boring... and this is not to say Leone has a face paced film because he doesn't.

Man, I love Leone... I wish he could have made a few more films.

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« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2003, 09:36:57 PM »

Don't forget that Leone had Morricone music also, I don't recall if Yohimbo had any.

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« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2003, 03:09:32 AM »

Don't forget that Leone had Morricone music also, I don't recall if Yohimbo had any.
YOJIMBO had an excellent score by Masaru Sato. The recently released full score on cd runs nearly 55 mins in length.  It was one of the most highly sought after lps for years, usually fetching well over $100 for used copies.
The placement of some of Morricone's music was identical to the original.

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« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2003, 10:48:03 AM »

I think that they are both great movies...

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« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2003, 09:02:34 AM »

I also think  both films are good-I don,t think Leone,s version is particularly better though although it does have more action.But I think Kurosawa is also a great director-Yojimbo may be one of his weaker films.

The same plot was used again for Last Man Standing,which isn,t bad.

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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2003, 05:27:20 AM »

 
Good question.

Easy answer for me...... now, but for the longest time I couldn't make up my mind.

I love both
I only saw "Yojimbo" fairy recently ( within the last 4-5 years or so ) for the 1st time. However when I finally tracked down the video of "A Fistful of Dollars" about 2 years ago, it was no contest.
For me, its Fistful by a mile, or a kilometer if you prefer.

Sure its are full of scenes lifted ( & since its the same plot/script, why wouldn't there be ) from Yojimbo but not quite as many as I 1st thought. & those that are lifted, are done in the daringly different 'Leone style". Big difference difference if you ask me. There is also enough new & reworked material that the film stands on its own.

Example:

Yojimbo": the dog carrying a hand
AFOD": the Dead rider propped up on a horse

The final showdown the same & yet daringly different.
Often when a scene was seemingly the same, there is something new added or in the case of Joe's escape from the Rojos, they left out the part from "Yojimbo" where they get one of the bad guys to help carry the coffin which IMO actually works better.

The Grave yard scene with the 2 dead soldiers was new. In Yojimbo ( if I recall correctly, they only "spoke" of some officials having been murdered )

And thats just a few.

There's even ( again IMO ) a slight nod to "Yojimbo" with Clint throwing a machete through someone instead of shooting him when rescuing Maisol.( yes, I know he was out of bullets )

There is ( & this is JMO ) much more of Clint Eastwood in "AFOD" than in the other 2. I don't just mean more screen time, but more actual creative input from him. I read somewhere that he convicted Leone to throw out not only a lot of dialog but some character background as well, to keep the character as mysterious as possible. The ending/showdown ( I won't give it away for any who may not have have seen it ) has Clint's finger prints all over it in its almost super natural twist. Something that is Clint has used on other occasions in his films.

People give lot of lip service these days about such-in-such new film being ground breaking & so on ( don't know about anyone else, but I haven't seen too many around lately ) but "AFOD" was one of the most ground breaking films of all time.

Kurosawa's artistry & genius remain unsurpassed, but for at least "the Dollars Trilogy, Leone was as great as anyone.

IMO "A Fistful of Dollars" is perhaps the most unique western ever made.

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« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2003, 11:46:19 AM »

I think that they are both great movies...

Both are great movies, that is very true. One is a great samurai movie, with a charismatic lead and so much disrespect towards the earlier films of the genre, it represented a renewal of the genre itself.

The other is a great western movie, with a charismatic lead and so much disrespect towards the earlier films of the genre, it represented a renewal of the genre itself.

But actually, the whole thing started with a little novel by Dashiel Hammett, called "Red Harvest".

A great mystery and suspense novel, with a charismatic....

 

« Last Edit: September 25, 2003, 11:46:46 AM by Walter » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2003, 02:13:41 PM »

true-but Kurosawa took the Hammett story and made it his own-while Leone took the Kikushima/Kurosawa screenplay and lost the lawsuit Cry

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« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2003, 05:07:09 PM »

true-but Kurosawa took the Hammett story and made it his own-while Leone took the Kikushima/Kurosawa screenplay and lost the lawsuit Cry

Can't disagree with you.

But remakes aren't always bad. While we're discussing Hammett - the Bogart version of The Maltese Falcon was actually the third film based upon the book. Still, Leone should have owned up to his little loan in beforehand. That would have made it an honest remake, not the rip-off it is. A very fine rip-off, though.

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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2003, 01:52:47 AM »

Fellow Brethern,



But second, Kurosawa did his own copying from an American story (according to Something to do with death).


Kurosawa was inspired by "the Red Harvest " a Dashiell Hammet novel who was inspired by "Arlequin serviteur de deux maitres" of Goldoni ,an Italian author (18th century ?) . Leone said that our culture is a worldwide one and people from all countries share same themas.

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« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2004, 07:30:24 AM »

As a huge fan of both Kurosawa and Leone (I consider these to be among the most gifted filmmakers ever), this is a tough question and I can't decide. One thing is certain, both directors has made films superior to these.

They remade Yojimbo in Iceland as well, as a viking film. Well worth the search. The Van Damme version was awful though, but worth checking out for curiosity reasons alone. It has several titles: "Inferno", "Desert Heat", and "Coyote Moon".

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« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2004, 07:58:34 AM »

Don't forget "Last Man Standing."

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« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2004, 08:07:33 AM »

It was already mentioned, so I didn't. It's a pretty entertaining film, with a great Christopher Walken performance, and a cool Ry Cooder score. Walter Hill can make pretty decent westerns and action films. He should forever stay away from comedy though. "Brewster's Millions" was pretty awful.

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« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2004, 03:44:50 AM »

i know this is sacrilege considering leone is my favourite director, but in my opinion Yojimbo is better.

Leone's style has yet to fully develop and he is copying kurosawa quite a lot. FFOD is a good film and has arguably more accomplished music, but Yojimbo has a great pounding style to it and toshiro mifune is arguably better than clint. i think the difference is that fistful is a very good film but Yojimbo is a great film. Leone would surpass fistful with every subsequent film he made (with exception of DYS)

I await the riposte from die-hard fistful fans...

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« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2004, 08:55:58 AM »

What you won't be expecting is riposte from Giu La Testa (Duck You Sucker) fans!!!!   Wink which i think is better than FOD.

No i like Yojimbo better than Fistful Of Dollars.
Just for the charactor/gang stucture in the town is alot more interesting. The scenes Between Mifune's Sanjuro & Tono's Bar Keeper are pure gold. Tatsuya Nakadai gunslinging Unosuke 'rabbit'..
alot in more key with Red Harvest than FOD.
Anyways Leone wouldnt have his cynical unkept anti-hero if it wasn't for Sanjuro Kuwabatake. This is something which he would use long after a script..

but FOD thou.
'Hombre with the sign, leaving town'..
'The Suit of Armour'
Arrrh  Undecided  its hard to choose.. hard choose

« Last Edit: May 03, 2004, 12:13:00 PM by The Smoker » Logged

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