I hate it when SW's are made "campy"

[Johny_Exhale]

as much as i love to **** on tarantino... imitating ideas is not a bad thing when you actually know and respect what your imitating, look at OUATITW... hell there wouldn't be a leone either if he didn't imitate american westerns.

what makes you think tarantino doesnt know and respect what hes imitating? because in fact he does, he acknowledges it and pays many respect to the films he pays homage to

[Leone Admirer]

Tarantino is a post modernist director, and its interesting that Leone was identified as one of the first PM filmmakers because of his use of inter-textual referances. My earlier point was not that I think imitating is all bad, as said especially when its done with respect, but when a film begins to run out of steam because the inter-textual referances begin driving the plot (which could be said about Vol 2. of Kill Bill, but I liked it) then you have a problem. Tarantino's capable direction of CSI actually shows that he does have other talents as a director other then merely an inter textual director.

[Tucos wife]

I have to agree with Leone Admirer on that one.  "Killer Instinct" by Jane Hamsher about the making of Natural Born Killers is a great book. It'll prove any arguments on my part that Tarantino is a hack.

[grandpa_chum]

what makes you think tarantino doesnt know and respect what hes imitating? because in fact he does, he acknowledges it and pays many respect to the films he pays homage to

that is exactly what I was saying... i was defending tarantino BECAUSE he knows and respects what he's imitating, he's not just blindly copying anything.

[Beebs]

My earlier point was not that I think imitating is all bad, as said especially when its done with respect

I do not know who Tarrentino is or what movies he's directed, all I konw is he's imitated Leone in his films. About your quote, "imitating" needs to be done with respect and the imitation has to do the original justice. Can't imitate a good movie and make a bad movie. It's not, ya you guessed it, respectful.

[redyred]

There are three kinds of imitation in this world my friend:

Influence - Not taking anything directly, just doing it in the style of e.g. "This is how [I think] Leone would have done it if he was directing".

Homage/nod - A subtle little reference, usually to an influence. Inconsequential to the plot and simply there for the sake of it - e.g. using names from other films, imitating famous shots etc.

Rip-off - Directly thieving ideas, plotlines, dialogue etc, e.g. most of Tarantino's work.

[Dlanor]

 I think Tarantino suceeded because Hollywood decided that it could be cool at least one guy like him, who grew up in a video store, could do that,"quotation movies", especially if it brings back money. Maybe a way for the cinema to look at himself.
 Hollywood put people in squares and he was put in this one and was given free hand.

[grandpa_chum]

ok, i can't believe i'm defending tarantino once again but c'mon... the guy is not a rip off artist, you guys are crazy... first off he doesn't use ideas from different movies any differently than leone does, where do you guys see the discretion... second of all it's more like...

'influence'- your good enough that people don't care...
'Homage/Nod'- your not too good and people like you, so they'll overlook it...
'rip off'- people just want something to blame you for

it's all the same... and i have no problem with it, other than flat out remaking a movie i don't see anything really as a rip off, certainly nothing tarantino has done.

i feel sick to my stomach right now, shit i can't defend tarantino anymore

[Tucos wife]

Westerns before Leone were A LOT different. No ugly actors, no gritty dirty sets, no blood and ultra violence. Leone loved Ford and was greatly influenced by his movies, as an inspiration. Look at the direction he took them in. As well as Yojimbo. I don't hear the theme to Yojimbo playing throughout FOD he used the storyline. Kubrick and Peckinpaw both loved Leone and were inspired by him but you don't here the theme of GBU twanging through their movies.

Tarantino was not a film student. He worked in a video store, watched tons of movies MOST people have no idea exist and then balled them all together to make them the "Tarantino style" He didn't take film into a new genre. He didn't revolutionize the industry. He made choppy films that are really only character sketches, with f%$# as the number one word in them. I don't think Tarantino will be studied years to come in film theory as a legend in filmmaking.

[Dlanor]

Westerns before Leone were A LOT different. No ugly actors, no gritty
Tarantino was not a film student. He worked in a video store, watched tons of movies MOST people have no idea exist and then balled them all together to make them the "Tarantino style" He didn't take film into a new genre. He didn't revolutionize the industry. He made choppy films that are really only character sketches, with f%$# as the number one word in them. I don't think Tarantino will be studied years to come in film theory as a legend in filmmaking.

Tarantino said he invented a new genre: Crime movies
and he said he was inspired (among aothers) by Jean Pierre Melville noir films for Pulp fiction: I think it is the two cops well dressed who are so lazy to do their job that they think and speak about something else while doing it, it produces a gap.
 Do you think that Tarantino is THE new Leone or that he would be the more (if not only) Leonesque director alive?

[Groggy]

Comparing Tarantino to Leone is like comparing Stan Lee to Picasso.

[Dlanor]

He is very different but in a way he is the nowaday equivalent because he took the place Leone had, especially for the new generation. There is something subersive in his movies like in Leone's.

[Leone Admirer]

Westerns before Leone were A LOT different. No ugly actors, no gritty dirty sets, no blood and ultra violence. Leone loved Ford and was greatly influenced by his movies, as an inspiration. Look at the direction he took them in. As well as Yojimbo. I don't hear the theme to Yojimbo playing throughout FOD he used the storyline. Kubrick and Peckinpaw both loved Leone and were inspired by him but you don't here the theme of GBU twanging through their movies.

Tarantino was not a film student. He worked in a video store, watched tons of movies MOST people have no idea exist and then balled them all together to make them the "Tarantino style" He didn't take film into a new genre. He didn't revolutionize the industry. He made choppy films that are really only character sketches, with f%$# as the number one word in them. I don't think Tarantino will be studied years to come in film theory as a legend in filmmaking.

Here here! Whilst there was an attempt to have darker and more gritty westerns, like the Ox-Bow Incident and High Noon, Leone's westerns certainly were groundbreaking in a lot of ways. As I have said before, Leone is a post-modernist director, which QT maybe to some angle, and yet I still feel Leone treated the inter-textual referances with more respect ( I'm sure there will be many who disagree with me)

Posted by: Groggy

Comparing Tarantino to Leone is like comparing Stan Lee to Picasso. 

I also agree with that.

Case in point. Martin Scorsese, he has a great film knowledge and yet makes decent films, admitedly his most recent output hasn't reached the heights of the earlier work but he uses the elements as (to use a multimedia term here) an easter egg, a delight for fans to spot, and an acknowledgment to the masters past. (A great film to compare is his choice of shots in Raging Bull and how much they compare with the excellent The Set Up directed by Robert Wise) I don't think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) he's copied major plot points or even whole plots to actually drive his films along. I haven't seen Marty copy entire elements from one of his favourite Rosselini films Paisan (an excellent neo realism film).

QT should be respected for bringing awareness to cinema audiences of other lesser known film genres and industries. It should not be forgotton that he was certainly not the first to do this, Marty, Francis Ford Coppola and of course Sergio Leone were doing as much maybe even more (for instance I don't see QT getting actively involved in Film Restoration as much or at all as S &C.)

Well theres my two cents...

[Beebs]

Well as I have told Leone Admirer, I don't know what Tarrentino directed of who he is but I have gathered that he is accused of copying Leone. Now, as for copying, it can be stated a few different ways as someone has posted above the 3 kinds of immitations. here are my three.

Inspiration- in my case, I know I'll never be a director or actor but seeing some acting or directing can make me say 'wow what an amazing guy, I wish I could be like that" and out fo respect I buy light colored boots and a hat like Clint.

Based on- basically a remake after a considerable amount of time has gone by where the new generations need to know what a good movie is. Usually these don't turn out too well such as Willy Wonka but it still and imitation. The credits may mention the movie.

Rip off  (I agree with yours on this one)- totally ruins the movie and gives no credit and acts like an original.

[Dlanor]

QT should be respected for bringing awareness to cinema audiences of other lesser known film genres and industries. It should not be forgotton that he was certainly not the first to do this, Marty, Francis Ford Coppola and of course Sergio Leone were doing as much maybe even more (for instance I don't see QT getting actively involved in Film Restoration as much or at all as S &C.)

 Well if I understand correctly, knoweldge will be useless to you if you haven't got talent or a gift. Some people in cinema school should learn tons of thing, or people should rent thousand of videos, it'll be useless to them if they haven't got talent.