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Author Topic: The Rape Scenes  (Read 32247 times)
Groggy
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« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2005, 04:58:42 PM »

I've always thought that the drivers prevented the rape, I mean I see him stopping the car before the rape is commited and in fact the rape isn't comited because the driver interupted it. Actually we don't see Noodles raping Deborah, we see him fighting with her, but at the end and thanks to the driver she succeeds rejecting him before it's done and he gives up. I have always seen things this way.

Noodles ejaculates at least once, and then goes at it again (it's unclear whether he's able to a second time).  It's unpleasant and disturbing, but it did happen.

I don't see how the rape scene, horrible though it is, makes this a misogynist film.  Noodles is a guy who was brought up to think that women were sex objects who do what they're told (Peggy, the girl in the hearse, Carol), and he can't stand the idea that Deborah would reject him.  I don't think he feels ashamed per se after the rape scene, I think he realizes that he won't see Deborah again, and that, more than the fact that he raped her, is why he becomes upset later on. 

And in any case, the rape is hardly "glossed over".  True, Leone doesn't stop the film to make a big speech about how "rape is wrong".  That would be idiotic.  Leone's film is unapologetically about guys who are misogynists, or at the very least just don't know how to handle a woman.  Accusing Leone of being a misogynist for presenting characters who are is a ludicrous ad hominem.  The rape destroys (or at least damages) Noodles psychologically and he never really recovers after that.  He might put on a "face" during business (as in the scenes with Crowning and Chicken Joe) but it's pretty clear that the rape ruined everything he had, and he knows it. 

As for the driver?  Well, maybe he had an I-POD in the front seat . . .  Tongue

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« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2005, 12:03:42 PM »

Finally, some people talking sense. Groggy, your I POD theory makes perfect sense, it's like the final puzzle in the jigsaw  Cheesy But seriously, I'd almost lost all hope for humanity after reading some of the posts on here condeming this film

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« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2005, 02:52:19 PM »

i hardly think that some people agreeing that what NOODLES did was unforgivable means that they are all condeming this film to hell. i for 1 found this film to be a wonderful work of art that has not been matched in its genre.

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Dlanor
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« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2005, 04:44:46 PM »

This is definitely a good film. The problem is that the sex scenes are too violent and often cause repulsion to the audience in such a strong way that they quit, they switch off the TV, they go in another room.
 There are particular points where people "give up" the movie. First there is the scene with nipple in the opium den at the begining, the cop touching the nipple with the gun. The film isn't started more than five minutes and the audience has to see that. Then there is the scene with Peggy in the toilet. Some people may lef there.
 It's a pity because if the the people can endure these scenes they can discover a good movie.
 Leone said he wanted to say some truth in this movie. It is obvious, first,that he had wanted to say that sex is a primary issue in life. In fact, the more disturbing is that the sex situations are not depicted in the conventional way we are used to see them in another movies. In the other movies, there is some sort of protocol before each sex scene, a ceremonial, we know according to the situation, for example a dinner, a man and a woman being together for a long time than something will happen. There is some king of code that brings the sex and makes it acceptable, that put it in a "case".
 In this movie, it isn't that the sex scenes are shown very realistically but there isn't that kind of protocols, sex situations erupt just like in life, there isn't comfortable way to live them. People who experience sex in the movie , never experience it in a comfortable situation. It is never the married or unmarried couple in his bed. It has to do with the difficulty to deal with one sexuality in our society and it disturbs because contrary to what other movies want to establish, it remembers that sexuality is still a thing wich our society remains uncomfortable with.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2005, 01:21:33 AM by Dlanor » Logged
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« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2005, 08:02:57 PM »

very good point DLANOR. u seem to have really immersed youreself in what leone was trying to say(though u may be 100% off. because u cant really ever be sure what someone is trying to convey in a film. but brownie points for u for trying).

oh by the way the goon that revolves the nipple with the gun is a mobster not a cop.

its ok, honest mistake. i made the same assumption the first time i saw it. but then they killed noodles's girlfriend at the start so that got the wheels workin the second time around for me so i realized...ok ... thats not a cop.

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J B
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« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2005, 09:47:34 PM »

I would also like to say that I wasn't condeming the movie.  I was only questioning it.  It's actually kind of interesting now that I think about how I reacted to that rape scene.  A Clockwork Orange certaintly had some graphic rape scenes as well, but they didn't sit with me in the same way as the scenes in this film.  Maybe it's because the protagonist in A Clockwork Orange was portrayed as a violent maniac right off the bat, where as Noodles didn't necassarily act overtly violent except in a couple of scenes.  the way Robert Deniro played him too, was very subtle.

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Dlanor
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« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2005, 01:29:42 AM »

Clockwork orange is a fantastic film, almost sci fi. It is alegoric, symbolistic I think one takes things less seriously when all the context doesn't seem real, when it's fantaisist. CO does have a lot of abstraction.

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« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2005, 01:34:20 AM »

I see your point, although it's still definitely a serious movie even if it doesn't have the same sort of realism as OUATIA.

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« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2005, 08:59:17 AM »

I think A clockwork Orange has moments of genius from Kubrick, but I feel he fails to get the message of the book across properly, still worth seeing. Tbh in relation to Dlanors point, don't know if this is just me but literally nothing makes me squirm on a telly or in the cinema, if people stop watching after that then they're a bit of a softie in my view.

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« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2005, 06:26:08 AM »

Just about every Kubrick film, though often magical to look at, is a wrongheaded adaptation of a novel or short story that fumbles the point of the original tale. (The most egregious is BARRY LYNDON, which presents its story as literal truth, when in fact the novel reveals the whole epic to be the fantasy of a chronic liar/braggart.)

Leone, on the other hand, only adapted one novel for the screen -- Harry Grey's THE HOODS -- and made it into the brilliant ONCE UPON A TIME IN AMERICA, which truly captures the flavor of the novel and wisely, cleverly expands upon it. 

BTW, The limo driver is a paid employee of Noodles, and thus is not likely to call the cops on his boss. It's significant, though, that he has enough humanity that he intervenes to stop Deborah's degradation.

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« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2005, 10:23:43 AM »

so he is a hired driver that makes perfect sense.

thank u for the contribution Wink

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