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: Angel eyes bad poker player !  ( 6178 )
johnk
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« : August 26, 2005, 09:25:46 PM »

Angel eyes would make a bad poker player.
After spending most of the film being cruel and shrewd
and always having the odds stacked in his favour, he
blows it by giving Blondie and Tuco the chance to shoot
it out with him at the end on equal footing,having all the
odds in favour.Surley he would realise that if the money
wasn't  in Arch Stantons grave it wasnt go to be far away.He would be better off killing Blondie and Tuco and spending the rest of his days digging up all the freshly dug graves around abouts Arch Stanton grave.
What ever made him think by giving Blondie his gun he would write the name on the rock ?   What faith in human nature !
Come on amigos,meet me in the arena and shoot me down in flames !



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« #1 : August 28, 2005, 07:24:57 AM »

It is easy to say but not easy to kill Clint. No one can kill Clint.

It would then be called
"The Life and Death of the Good and the Ugly"
Written and Illustarted by The Bad

titoli
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« #2 : August 28, 2005, 11:16:30 AM »

Further, he could shoot not deadly Blondie and Tuco to persuade them to talk; or he could force them to dig all the cemetery tombs. But what would you expect from one who, in the former movie, let Il monco steal his watch without noticing it?


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« #3 : September 09, 2005, 02:05:38 AM »

You got a point - I have been thinking the same. But perhaps Angels Eyes reckons that Tuco is as eager to shoot Blondie as he himself is - coz he sees Blondie pointing a gun at Tuco while digging and reckons that their alliance is over, the gold now being close. And he's got a point, they are not exactly best friends at this point.

Anyway, it's one of those questions that we'll always ask of the movies: why this and why that when he might just as well have shot em in the back, the end.

Why do the baddies always talk so much when they are in control instead of just killing ("when you have to shoot, etc.")? And why in the hell would the young girl walk into that dark room alone? And why o why do good guy teams always split up in the middle of some alien fortress, subterranean dungeons or in some jungle full of monsters?

Why does Frank come back to face Death in OUATIW?

Without these, at times, pretty stupid moves, we would not have the movies, but representations of everyday life on ordinary premises.



titoli
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« #4 : September 09, 2005, 02:10:49 AM »

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Why does Frank come back to face Death in OUATIW?

Because he prefers not to die of curiosity about whom Harmonica really is.


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« #5 : September 09, 2005, 02:54:35 AM »

Because he prefers not to die of curiosity about whom Harmonica really is.

That's precisely what I mean - now is that movie logic for you right there, or isn't it?


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« #6 : September 09, 2005, 05:02:19 AM »

Absolutely:  it has nothing to do with the other examples, where characters are brought to act against common sense to serve the necessities of the plot.
In the case of Frank, I wouldn't expect him to act differently because he's not a coward; and after all Harmonica has done for him and said to him he "must" know who he is. On his part, Harmonica is counting on Frank's curiosity to bring him where he wants: a man to man duel.


« : September 09, 2005, 05:06:30 AM titoli »

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« #7 : September 10, 2005, 08:19:09 PM »

Notice how they ALL have some little game to play?  Harmonica's "time sure flies, its already past 12".
Morton dealing out money.    Frank cooly letting Morton die.  Mortimer/Angel Eyes toying with his pistol at long distances, or prodding the Hunchback at the saloon or eatery at close range. Blondie's hanging of Tuco at the beginning and end of GBU. 
Seems to me like Leone enjoyed playing up our little eccentricities.  We all have them anyway.  Its really just a great touch of realism.  A master stroke.  And thats just a few of the movies.

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« #8 : September 11, 2005, 03:05:55 PM »

... it has nothing to do with the other examples, where characters are brought to act against common sense to serve the necessities of the plot.

Well, it comes pretty darn close now, doesn't it? The whole "man to man thing" is, if anything, a necessity of the plot.
 
Anyway, what's the big deal, it works out just fine after all. As does the triello.


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« #9 : September 11, 2005, 05:37:30 PM »

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Well, it comes pretty darn close now, doesn't it? The whole "man to man thing" is, if anything, a necessity of the plot.

It is a necessity of the essence of the characters and the way they have been developed up to that moment, apart from being also a mainstay of western mythology. but no forcing on the essence of the characters is done. The duel is the inevitable conclusion of the plot, not forced at all. On the contrary the triello, though being effective, is just a gimmick, done for the hell of doing something that was never done before.


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« #10 : September 12, 2005, 01:32:52 AM »

...the triello, though being effective, is just a gimmick, done for the hell of doing something that was never done before.

That's absolutely true but what would have been your "conclusion of the plot"-ending to GBU alternatively? Angel Eyes blasting Blondie and Tuco, then searching for the gold? Shrewd as he is?

No, I think the triello is a "conclusion to the plot"-ending with a twist. The characters have been dancing around each other the whole movie and the plot leads them to play out, down to the essence, who is really together, and who's not. And even in the moment of truth does Blondie cheat Tuco (by having emptied his gun), and that says it all.

OUATIW has one clearly BAD guy, and one who is clearly OUT FOR REVENGE. And of course they have to duel. But in GBU, we are dealing with a classic trickster (apart from the  good and the bad) - Tuco - and of course he had to be part of the triello.

Yes, a gimmick, but in accordance with the plot - we are never supposed to know precisely where Tuco stands, and that goes for the triello as well. And so, it works.

Watching it, one surely feels "This is great, this works" more than "Well now, is this construction really, in its essence, in accordance with what could have should have been done by whomever earlier on, if he was true to his inner nature and the logic of this storyline?"

Part of why it works is the cinematography, and that goes as a general point for the whole film.

Jeez, this is taking too much of my time - ciao for now.


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« #11 : September 12, 2005, 05:30:47 AM »

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That's absolutely true but what would have been your "conclusion of the plot"-ending to GBU alternatively? Angel Eyes blasting Blondie and Tuco, then searching for the gold? Shrewd as he is?

I told before. to involve himself in a triello where he has no chances against Eastwood (at least) and where, assuming he might by some chance win the gunfight, he doesn't even know whether he's really gonna find something written under the stone is pure idiocy on his part. A shrewd character like him loses credibility in a few seconds for the sake of the plot. Now, maybe there was an alternative solution (I should think about it and have not time for that. and further, nobody pays me for it) or maybe there wasn't. or maybe Leone had already decided that he wanted the triello no matter what. but the solution is a superimposed one, uncoeherent with the character's logic.
And maybe you don't know where Tuco is, but surely he is not with Sentenza, who should have the certainty of facing two enemies against him. 


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« #12 : September 13, 2005, 07:46:56 PM »

One reason Leone still is so influential upon modern directors is that he made "movie movies" - the Trilogy had their own insane logic that made sense once you became immersed in them.  So purely realistic plot elements became subordinate to the surrealistic.  To paraphrase, "Badges?  We don't need no stinking badges!"


And what if your hand should shake a little?  And that Gringo so fast on the draw.
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« #13 : November 25, 2005, 06:23:32 AM »


Are you guys suggesting that Angel Eyes kills Blondie and Tuco just as he comes up behind them in the graveyrad?

Hmmm ... Tuco would be no problem, but as for shooting Blondie in the back, what if his hand waivered "and he's only been hurt?" (To quote one of the Rojos.)

Besides, if I was as confident as Angel Eyes, I'd take my chances in a quick shoot-out than to spend weeks looking for gold that might not even be there. He wants other people to do his work...


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