Sergio Leone Web Board
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 17, 2017, 11:17:19 PM
Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
News:


+  Sergio Leone Web Board
|-+  General Information
| |-+  General Discussion (Moderators: cigar joe, moviesceleton, Dust Devil)
| | |-+  "Duck, You Sucker!" vs. "Fistful of Dynamite"
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 Go Down Print
Author Topic: "Duck, You Sucker!" vs. "Fistful of Dynamite"  (Read 49503 times)
Halis
Bandido
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 78


I'm a llama!


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2003, 04:58:12 PM »

I wouldn't put too much store in what it says in Professor Frayling's book. The Professor devotes a whole page to praising Leone's performance in CEMETERY WITHOUT CROSSES, completely unaware that he's watching Chris Huerta. That's not the only error. In fact the Professor admits that there are mistakes, but explains that writing an 800 page book and getting everything right is really difficult.
You'll also notice that the Professor often quotes different people telling different stories of how certain things happened, and these stories are often contradictory. I believe there's about three stories concerning where the poncho came from.
So what it says in the Professor's book regarding the original script title, may not be the way it was.
Then again, what I read in an interview that Sergio gave at the time of the GIU LA TESTA release may not be true either. But Sergio was quoted as saying that he wanted to call it GIU LA TESTA and he wanted to call it DUCK YOU SUCKER. Check Fornari's book for the DUCK YOU SUCKER story.
It's surely more likely that a distributor would want to cal the movie ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE REVOLUTION in order to package it alongside ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST. Naturally Sergio would want GIU LA TESTA because it encapsulated the story.

Logged
Halis
Bandido
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 78


I'm a llama!


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2003, 05:20:59 AM »

Well, I hate to disagree with myself, but in the interests of factual accuracy:
I've finally found a copy of an old interview with Sergio Leone by Noel Simsolo and it appears to agree with Prof Frayling and the posting by angeleyes.
However, to put things in context, Leone does appear to be now running the line that even if everything had not been planned from the start, he'd at least modified as he went along, with the creation of a Western trilogy being his intention.
He states quite clearly that FISTFUL OF DOLLARS was "the first installment of a triptych".  He goes on to say that "this first trilogy was completed" with GBU. "Having finished with that grouping, I wanted to start shooting ONCE UPON A TIME... AMERICA. I went to the states to get production started, but -alas- there is no forgiving success! They asked me to shoot another Western."
So Leone did OUATITW, and then once again tried to prepare OUITA. But because OUATITW was now a huge success, he was asked to do ONCE UPON A TIME... THE REVOLUTION.
Leone wasn't going to direct himself, but the backers wanted him. And he originally wanted Jason Robards and Malcolm McDowell, but ended up with Steiger and Coburn: "So, I modified the script in order to be able to include the film as a parenthesis (sic) between ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST and ONCE UPON A TIME... AMERICA." (He means that OUATITW and OUATIA were to be the parentheses that would include OUATTR)
In response to a question regarding making films about Revolution and the Political climate in Italy at the time, Leone says: It was so difficult, in fact, that the Italian partners rejected my title in Italy. I had to change ONCE UPON A TIME... THE REVOLUTION to GIU LA TESTA, which means - in Italian - "duck", but also "get out of the way", so that that title takes on a very precise social connotation."
So although GIU LA TESTA wasn't Leone's first choice of title, it seems that it was a title which he now felt was very apt.

There's also a section later on where Leone explains that the final flashback in ONCE UPON A TIME... THE REVOLUTION "was cut in Italy because there the public has sacrificed itself to a new fashion: getting up and leaving just a little bit before the end of the film. this was a little ticklish with this film, because it's stuffed with false endings." But outside Italy he put this final important flashback into all the other versions.

You'll notice that in this quote Leone is still calling the film ONCE UPON A TIME... THE REVOLUTION, or at least an English translation of C'ERA UNA VOLTA... LA RIVOLUZIONE. So maybe that is what he really wanted all along, another triptych or trilogy of similarly titled movies.
Maybe the re-issue should be titled accordingly. One thing's for certain, nobody wants FISTFUL OF DYNAMITE.

Logged
Chasman
Road Apple
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12


I'm a llama!


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2003, 04:08:37 PM »

The title, as I've always seen it, only comes up at the end as an answer to Juan's question "What about me?" That's really the reason to put it back in; because it's a final punchline to Juan's personal quest and now his new dilema. Tell them it answers the question: "Fistful Of Dynamite" doesn't answer anything. What would be MGM's concern about which title appears at the end of the movie, anyway?  If they're worried about sales,  all they should care about is what's on the cover. I have a one-sheet with A FISTFUL OF DYNAMITE as the title but (DUCK YOU SUCKER) under it. Call it a compromise but not an objectionable one.  But it really doesn't matter what they put on the cover. Say "OK, let's put A FISTFUL OF DYNAMITE on the cover with (DUCK YOU SUCKER) under it, but we really need that "Duck You Sucker" at the end of the movie because it's the punchline;  it's the final joke on the character. And A LOT of people who will BUY a restored copy of this movie want it there. because they know it belongs there and they aren't going to be happy if it isn't."  I have an article in an old issue of OUI magazine at home and I know Leone said he was going to sue United Artists for the changes they had made, but I honestly don't recall the title change being part of that. I'll have to dig it out and look, but he clearly wasn't happy with the re-edits.

Logged
Donald S. Bruce
Road Apple
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10



View Profile WWW
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2003, 10:16:07 PM »

John,

  Please email me.

Logged

A Film Archaeologist's Guide To The Sergio Leone Westerns
http://www.sergioleone.net/archeo/book.html

Don Bruce's Sergio Leone Research Web Page
http://www.sergioleone.net
mgmguy
Road Apple
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7


I'm a llama!


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2003, 05:20:50 PM »

Thanks, guys, for all your help. I agree that "Once upon a Time... the Revolution" would be a great title to use, but since Paramount owns "Once upon a Time in the West" and Warner Bros. owns "Once upon a Time in America," there's little-to-no chance that a trilogy release would ever happen. Since film elements were made only for "Duck, You Sucker!" and "Fistful of Dynamite," I think I'm stuck with using one of the two. I think that the argument that "Duck, You Sucker!" is the response to the final line of dialogue is also a strong reason to use that title. If you come across anything else that might help, please let me know. Thanks again!

Logged
Chasman
Road Apple
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12


I'm a llama!


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2003, 05:23:23 PM »

Now I have to correct myself. I guess I should look at my DUCK YOU SUCKER poster more often. Contrary to what I said above, the poster has the title DUCK YOU SUCKER in big ltetters and under it in parentheses, in small letters "(A FISTFUL OF DYNAMITE)". I recall when I bought this I was told this was the international poster. Since both titles are on it but with the obvious emphasis on DUCK YOU SUCKER, it shows that even after the title change this was still being advertised primarily as DUCK YOU SUCKER.

Logged
Concorde
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 155


"Finally, I believe ONLY in dynamite...."


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2003, 04:57:46 PM »

I wonder if Mr. Kirk from MGM might be able to verify thru Peter Bogdanovich himself what the film's title was supposed to be.

Bogdanovich was actually supposed to direct Duck You Sucker at one point, and thus he should be the perfect resource to resolve this question conclusively, seeing as how he's an American who had access to the project while it was in pre-production.

My question for Mr. Kirk: Will the new print feature the opening quotation from Mao, which appeared on the longer laserdisc version of the movie?

Logged
mgmguy
Road Apple
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7


I'm a llama!


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2003, 05:50:02 PM »

I have not started looking into all of the available elements for "Duck, You Sucker!" yet - I'm waiting until after I get through the premiere of "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" in New York next month. I have not seen the laserdisc of "DYS," so I'm not sure if a film element was used to create the quote or whether it was created on video. If I can find a film element with the quote on it, I would put it in the restored version.

Logged
sephrodgers
Road Apple
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5


Very interesting...


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2003, 03:05:45 AM »

Hello - first post and everything, and I don't know how much more there
 is to add on the relative claims each title has to authenticity but I would
say that in the recent documentary 'Something to do with Sergio Leone' (I think)
 that aired on BBC2 (and still gets a showing now and again on the Biography
 Channel), James Coburn recounts an anecdote about Sergio insisting that 'Duck,
 You Sucker' was a common phrase in America - despite James and Rod's advice
otherwise. Sergio was set in his ways and insisted that this line was to be used
throughout the film. Grin
My copies of the film (Warners original home video release, and the BBC2 'uncut'
version) both end with the 'Fistful of Dynamite' tag.

Salute

Logged

It's like finding your pants on the top shelf when you know you put them on the bottom.
Concorde
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 155


"Finally, I believe ONLY in dynamite...."


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2003, 04:05:56 AM »

I exhibited this film at college festivals during the '70s, and the ONLY title under which it was available in 16mm from United Artists was DUCK YOU SUCKER.

That's also the title printed on the original LP edition of the soundtrack album on UA Records, and it's also the title of the paperback novelization that was published concurrently with the film.

I never actually saw any reference to the alternate "FISTFUL" version of the title until the film came out on VHS.

Logged
Garry Cowell
Bandido
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 130


Did you bring a horse for me?


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2003, 04:19:14 AM »

My copies of the film (Warners original home video release, and the BBC2 'uncut'
version) both end with the 'Fistful of Dynamite' tag.
I checked my copy of the 'BBC2' one and its actually BOTH but looks something like this...

[size=10]FISTFUL OF DYNAMITE[/size]
(DUCK YOU SUCKER)

 Grin

Logged
sephrodgers
Road Apple
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5


Very interesting...


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2003, 04:29:32 AM »

So , mrmgmguy - Duck, You Sucker it is then!

Do you think these prints will make it to London eventually?
I think I could spare a few quid to go and see my all time favorite films
on the big screen, but I can't afford to travel to NY for the experience.

Logged

It's like finding your pants on the top shelf when you know you put them on the bottom.
Jon
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 174


I'm a llama!


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2003, 09:00:12 AM »

Ditto.I have yet to see a Leone filn on the big screen.It would be great if the extended GBU and DYS came to Britain.

Logged
Angel Eyes
Bandido
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 137


I'll ask the questions!


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2003, 10:03:30 AM »

I think "Get Out of the Way" sounds best.



If the new GBU isnt out on DVD or in theatres, what the heck are the UK enthusiasts to do,other than crying into their poncho's.

Logged
cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12667


easy come easy go


View Profile
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2003, 03:47:02 PM »

 Jon and the rest. Yes you have to definitely see these films in a theaterm on a big screen with an audiance. It is not to be missed.

Logged

"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Visit FISTFUL-OF-LEONE.COM

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.045 seconds with 20 queries.