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Author Topic: 3:10 to Yuma (1957)  (Read 17607 times)
T.H.
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« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2011, 12:51:46 PM »

I'm long past the point of disliking movies for having bad endings or bits that don't make much sense. 3:10 is a beautifully made movie with great chemistry between the leads. I don't mind the ending, and to repeat what stanton said, it is more interesting than the bad guy killing good guy scenario. Great movies cheat or cop out - The Searchers, The Conversation and Red River, to name a few. With that said, I don't even know if the films would be better with a more logical conclusion. I'll take an interesting, complex, albeit flawed film over something safe and by-the-numbers every time.

As far as saying Heflin should have held Ford in the train station, I still don't see how that eliminates an impending violent conflict. The characters are also human, I don't understand how a potential oversight by a character should be held against the film - unless we're assuming that characters in films can not fall victim to human error - or have any conflicting emotions in general.


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« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2011, 01:24:55 PM »

T.H. : of course characters can be complex. But it is very important to me that a movie is realistic, ie. it is plausible that it could have happened. I know cinema is a fantasy, and there are almost always elements of fantasy in every movie. But still -- at least in a cinematic, fantastic sense, it has to be somewhat plausible. Now there ain't no way in hell that a criminal would spend all day devising a way to escape, only to be given a clear shot at freedom and squander his chance. No way in hell. That is so nonsensical, it makes a mockery of the audience. I fully believe it may be on the worst endings to any movie ever. Sure, it is possible that over the time they spend locked in that room together, they grow more sympathetic toward each other; that is certainly possible. But for Ford to jump onto the train in order to voluntarily head to prison? It makes a mockery of and shows utter contempt for the audience (I borrowed that last phrase from Roger Ebert's review of one of the scenes in the butchered version of OUATIA  Wink )

cigar joe: I totally agree with you about the walk to the station. Last Train From Gun Hill, which I was of course comparing to this movie, did a great job with that final walk: no way anyone could have shot at Douglas with that shotgun cocked and pressed against the chin of the villain. But in the final walk here, half the time Heflin isn 't even pointing the gun at Ford; it's like the barrel is resting on Ford's chest. I could have easily ripped that thing out of Helflin's hand, even with handcuffs on. Again, I don't say this lightly, but it makes a mockery of the audience. It is basically the director telling us: "You're gonna accept what we are saying is happening, rather than believing your own eyes." Like a little kids' play, where one shoots the other, who falls down slowly and lies on  the stage with his eyes blinking and laughing quietly to himself, but we're supposed to believe he is dead just because that is what we're supposed to do.

Sorry, but I don't do that. I have to feel it and it has to be plausible for me to believe. In Last Train From Gun Hill, you totally felt the tension and seriousness of the walk to the station. In 3:10 to Yuma,  I was laughing at what fools they were making the audience out to be


« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 12:01:39 PM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

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« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2011, 01:59:36 PM »

Like I think DJ mentioned once, Evans should have just held Wade in the station to wait for the train, eliminating the march from the hotel altogether.
An even better solution is to march uptrack toward the 3:10 and flag it down at, say, 2:45. This would keep Wade busy, make it more difficult for his gang to plan mischief, AND get Evans to safety earlier. A hotel room is a terrible place to defend--it limits your field of fire, makes maneuver difficult, and provides next to no cover (bullets go right through wood). And it cedes the initiative to your enemy. And then you aren't anywhere near the rail line, so on top of everything, you have to move. Very dumb.

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« Reply #48 on: September 01, 2011, 02:26:34 PM »

An even better solution is to march uptrack toward the 3:10 and flag it down at, say, 2:45. This would keep Wade busy, make it more difficult for his gang to plan mischief, AND get Evans to safety earlier. A hotel room is a terrible place to defend--it limits your field of fire, makes maneuver difficult, and provides next to no cover (bullets go right through wood). And it cedes the initiative to your enemy. And then you aren't anywhere near the rail line, so on top of everything, you have to move. Very dumb.

could you just flag a train down anywhere? you don't have to get it at the station?

also, his gang would have seen them leaving the hotel room and walking out of town uptrack. They were watching the room the whole time. So I don't see how being out in the open and walking for that long would help him...

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« Reply #49 on: September 01, 2011, 04:15:04 PM »

T.H. : of course characters can be complex. But it is very important to me that a movie is realistic, ie. it is plausible that it could have happened. I know cinema is a fantasy, and there are almost always elements of fantasy in every movie. But still -- at least in a cinematic, fantastic sense, it has to be somewhat plausible. Now there ain't no way in hell that a criminal would spend all day devising a way to escape, only to be given a clear shot at freedom and squander his chance. No way in hell. That is so nonsensical, it makes a mockery of the audience. I fully believe it may be on the worst endings to any movie ever. Sure, it is possible that over the time they spend locked in that room together, they grow more sympathetic toward each other; that is certainly possible. But for Ford to jump onto the train in order to voluntarily head to prison? It makes a mockery of and shows utter contempt for the audience (I borrowed that last phrase from Roger Ebert's review of one of the scenes in the butchered version of OUATIA  Wink )

cigar joe: I totally agree with you about the walk to the station. Last Train From Gun Hill, which I was of course comparing to this movie, did a great job with that final walk: no way anyone could have shot at Douglas with that shotgun cocked and pressed against the chin of the villain. But in the final walk here, half the time Heflin isn 't even pointing the gun at Ford; it's like the barrel is resting on Ford's chest. I could have easily ripped that thing out of Helflin's hand, even with handcuffs on. Again, I don't say this lightly, but it makes a mockery of the audience. It is basically the director telling us: "You're gonna accept what we are saying is happening, rather than believing your own eyes." Like a little kids' play, where one shoots the other, who falls down slowly and lies on  the stage with his eyes blinking and laughing quietly to himself, but we're supposed to believe he is dead just because that is what we're supposed to do.

Sorry, but I don't do that. I have to feel it and it has to be plausible for me to believe. In last Train From Gun Hill, you totally felt the tension and seriousness of the walk to the station. In 3:10 to Yuma,  I was laughing at what fools they were making the audience out to be



Realism?
How can you like Leone when you are looking mainly for realism?

I only can say that after all what goes on between Ford and Heflin the ending always seemed fitting for me. And still how comes that most people don't feel mocked?

I don't think that movies have to be realistic, but they have to be honest to themselves, and they should have an inner logic (which then can be very different for every movie). And on that level it works for me very well.

In the end 3:10 to Yuma is imo also the better film compared to Last Train from Gun Hill. For both directing and characters.

Drinkanddestroy, you have very strong feelings towards individual films. Not a bad thing.




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« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2011, 10:25:02 AM »

Realism?
How can you like Leone when you are looking mainly for realism?

Good point.

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« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2013, 02:35:26 PM »

Criterion Blu-ray set for May release.

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« Reply #52 on: February 15, 2013, 07:48:45 PM »

I knew about this for a while but Jubal's announcement really blew me away (my thoughts are in the Jubal thread). I guess I can't say anything negative about criterion for at least a year.

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« Reply #53 on: April 24, 2013, 08:12:16 AM »

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/3:10-to-Yuma-Blu-ray/66270/#Screenshots

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« Reply #54 on: April 26, 2013, 09:50:47 AM »

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews32/310_to_yuma.htm

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« Reply #55 on: January 04, 2017, 10:38:49 AM »

Saw this for the very first time last night. What a movie. I went to sleep trying to figure out whether this movie is better than High Noon, my current favorite black and white movie and in the running for my favorite Western.  Everything was on point. The cinematography, the music score, the script, the cast, everything. Its a masterpiece in my book...

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« Reply #56 on: January 04, 2017, 11:50:14 AM »

I went to sleep trying to figure out whether this movie is better than High Noon, my current favorite black and white movie and in the running for my favorite Western.

I'd take High Noon. In a certain way, it reminds me of a Fistful of Dollars. A short, low-budget flick that came out of nowhere and was staggeringly good and stylish.

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« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2017, 12:20:29 PM »

I'd take High Noon. In a certain way, it reminds me of a Fistful of Dollars. A short, low-budget flick that came out of nowhere and was staggeringly good and stylish.
I think i lean more toward High Noon also because of the script. Simple, to the point and everything that was said was very  important...

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« Reply #58 on: January 04, 2017, 02:08:05 PM »

Hmm, I think 3:10 to Yuma has the better screenplay and the more complex characters. HN suffers from some pretentious dialogues in which everybody explains himself, instead of that what they mean is that what they not say. And HN is build around constructed ideas, while 3:10 is the more organic film. But both are very stylishly made, and the b/w photography is excellent, both are very atmospheric.

But it is Zinnemann who saves HN, with a less inspired director HN could have become a mess like Firecreek, or at least one which is burdened too much by its pretensions despite some great stuff, like Warlock.


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« Reply #59 on: January 04, 2017, 02:29:02 PM »

Hmm, I think 3:10 to Yuma has the better screenplay and the more complex characters. HN suffers from some pretentious dialogues in which everybody explains himself, instead of that what they mean is that what they not say. And HN is build around constructed ideas, while 3:10 is the more organic film. But both are very stylishly made, and the b/w photography is excellent, both are very atmospheric.

But it is Zinnemann who saves HN, with a less inspired director HN could have become a mess like Firecreek, or at least one which is burdened too much by its pretensions despite some great stuff, like Warlock.


 

BOTH are great films.  My personal preference for High Noon's script is because i thought it was more believable from beginning to end, save the one scene where his wife saves him.  When i saw 3:10 to Yuma,  parts of the script looked like it was a remake of High Noon.  The townsfolk getting scared and leaving Van Heflin to fight by himself.  Van Heflin's wife, though she didn't save him, she is inserted right into the middle of a gunfight like the wife in High Noon.  The count down to a train coming. Again, High Noon.

I have mixed feelings about the ending of 3:10 to Yuma also. I've never seen a ending that was both great, and questionable at the same time until i saw this movie.  Now, don't get me wrong,  3:10 has become one of my favorites after i saw it last night. I'm just comparing to another masterpiece in High Noon because of the similarities.  Its a great movie and i'm gonna add it to my Blu Ray or DVD collection...

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