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Author Topic: Kitty scene dubbed  (Read 12619 times)
sadhill
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« on: September 15, 2005, 02:30:41 PM »

I asked a question about this scene a long while ago (2-21-03), and asked what was the original  sentence Eastwood said that was dubbed over, I got no answer then. Well if you mute it and watch I think he says

"Five to one makes it easy. That's a perfect number large one." (check this out muted and see if I'm right)

 However as you know  it is dubbed over "Every gun makes it's own tune, and it's perfect timing large one" (according to the subtitles).

So why was this dubbed over?  I think it was done because Blondie assumed Tuco just killed one of  Angel Eyes' gang, now making 5, but since the movie was edited, we never saw that "in the woods" cut scene where he meets the 6, and states 1,2 3 4...6 a perfect number. So his above statement about 5  would make no sense  to the viewer without seeing that  edited out woods scene, and thus the dubbed voice over. (It would also have  sounded repetitive and inconsistant about the 6 then 5 being a perfect number.) And besides how would he have known that Tuco killed one of the gang? In fact Tuco just killed the man with one arm. Also still assuming Tuco killed a gang member and then after Blondie kills Lorenzo Robeldo in the street, he would have met Tuco and said there were 4 not 5. But as it is shown he says " He's not alone theres five of them" so this would be a missmatch in the numbers. Maybe another script edit in there somewhere.

What do you think? Any other thoughts?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2005, 02:36:59 PM by sadhill » Logged
iceman
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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2005, 03:16:38 PM »

Got to agree with you on the wording....it sure looks like what you suggest. Not sure about him thinking TUCO had killed one of the gang. None of the gang had left the ruins had they, so he would know where they all were. Also how did he recognise TUCO's gun. I have my own theory on that point Huh Huh Huh Huh

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sadhill
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2005, 04:15:22 PM »

Good point about Tuco, and all being accounted for...my Cattivo!  So then why the phrase  "Five to one makes it easy. That's a perfect number large one." I should have watched and re-watched again further back.  Blondie enters the town with AE+5, Blondie hears the shot, talks to the cat, maybe  so the gang won't hear him, and again you were right all accounted for... AE (on bed)+5 are present when he leaves the building. Something is missing? I don't know what.  If the original text was left in it makes no sense, with or without the cut woods scene.  Maybe thats why the voice over dub.  And how did Blondie know Tuco was in town, just because of that gunshot? and  where he was? what building? Again something is missing during this scene.


« Last Edit: September 15, 2005, 04:30:15 PM by sadhill » Logged
Sackett
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2005, 07:11:32 PM »

I always thought he said something like
"bright one"
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il brutto
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« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2005, 01:52:16 AM »

Hello guys, I'm new in this forum, I'm italian and apologize for my not perfect english. I just read this post by sadhill and in my opinion all the kitten scene makes perfect sense. In the italian version Clint says: every gun has its own tune, and I recognize this one.
Then he meets Tuco and tells him, they are five and all quick. It's correct because he had just killed one and there were five left. When he left the bombed house he knew they were all inside, so he could not think Tuco killed one of them. He just heard Tuco's gun "voice" without figuring who he had shot, and finding Tuco only following his instinct. So I guess that the orginal Clint phrase was dubbed simply because it was wrong, in fact at that moment the guys to kill were 6 not 5.
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« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2005, 09:42:32 AM »

Iceman

I really need to know your theory.  When you realise that Tuco wouldn't have had a gun when taken away on the train by Wallace, it ruins the whole point of Blondie saying it (IMO)

Your theory may redeem it.   Smiley
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cigar joe
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« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2005, 03:08:28 PM »

There are two ways of looking at this either the gun that Tuco puts together has a distinct sound and Blondie recognizes that particular sound. (The speed at which Tuco puts together his custom gun indicates that he's done so before, and that he could easily have done it again once leaving Wallace).

The other way you could interpret it is the way Tuco shoots his gun the cadence he uses may be familiar to Blondie so when he says "every Gun has its own tune" he could be meaning Gun with a capital "G" as short for "Gunfighter, Gunman, Gunslinger, etc., etc."
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« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2005, 05:04:37 PM »

hence, He's a good Gun. Hired Guns
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sadhill
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« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2005, 08:04:37 PM »

Well I think I figured it out with your replies and input. If we are speaking about the cadence/rhythm/pattern of Tuco's gunshots, there are 3 instances in which he fires off his gun multiple times. In the beginning of the film when the 3 gunmen go in, behind the gunshop, and the bathtub scene.

 Let's throw out the beginning scene for a minute. While practicing in back of the gunshop he rapid fires off 5 shots, then there is about a 7 second delay and then a 6th shot. During the bathtub scene, he rapid fires off 4 shots then about 7 seconds later a 5th. HOWEVER if you review this scene frame by frame and listen to the gunshots, one gunshot is NOT heard, it's missing, it is the gunshot flash in frame #5. Watch it you will see the flash! 

 Assuming I'm right and Tuco actually fires off 5 in rapid succession followed by a 7 second delay and then the 6th shot, ( now a 2nd time he does this shooting pattern in the movie) this now makes Blondie original statement "Five to one makes it easy. That's a perfect number large one" valid... meaning maybe  "5 quick shots followed by 1" making it "easy" to ID the shooter... this 5 to 1 sequence a "perfect number" indicating only Tuco....

Maybe because of an audio edit mistake, because one gunshot sound is missing ,they substitute and dub "Every gun makes it's own tune, and it's perfect timing large one" almost with the same meaning without the numbering reference. They could have dubbed in another gunshot sound, but the original 5 to 1 statement is confusing and probably would have needed a little more explanation.  Hey almost 40 years later we are still talking about it Smiley

(I threw out the beginning scene because we can't see the gun flashes, anything could have happened in editing, but  there is 4 shots followed by a slight delay and then a 5th, and don't watch the "Special Edition" version, we know how they screwed up the gunshot "sound" in this version.)

Thoughts??

 
« Last Edit: September 16, 2005, 08:21:21 PM by sadhill » Logged
cigar joe
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« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2005, 04:17:44 AM »

certainly valid.
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Sackett
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« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2005, 06:14:29 PM »

Its still a gaff.
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Hanley
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« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2005, 03:26:52 AM »

The 5:1 analogy is very good. In the "GBU script", Tuco fires five shots, says his line and then, after standing up, fires the last shot. Next, in the GBU script, Blondie's eyes widen with astonishment and he thinks about the pattern of the shots. The camera view widens to show Blondie lying on a double bed in the shade of his hat. He gets up and says, "I don't like the sound of those shots. It could be Northeners. I'll have a quick look etc . . .". There is no mention of the kitten.
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« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2005, 12:35:32 PM »

Big thanks to Joe and Sadhill for giving the scene its validity back.
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« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2005, 02:38:33 PM »

Iceman

I really need to know your theory.  When you realise that Tuco wouldn't have had a gun when taken away on the train by Wallace, it ruins the whole point of Blondie saying it (IMO)

Your theory may redeem it.   Smiley

I'm still a bit unsure on your  5.1 shooting theory. How does Blondie recognise the pattern/cadence of TUCO's shooting. He has only  heard TUCO fire five shots ( this was my theory as to how Blondie new what his gun sounded like) in the desert scene, the last one (when he shoots his hat) after about a four second wait. Also the gun Wallace is carrying which could have been TUCO's is thrown away by TUCO when he tries to break the chain, and I'm assuming he doesn't take it with him.
One more point. If TUCO empties his gun into Mullock, then gets back in the bath, when Blondie arrives at the hotel he gets out of the bath and goes to the door...with an empty gun??

I'm still confused Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh

ICE
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cigar joe
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« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2005, 03:17:46 PM »

Its sort of like Leone's rule of what is out of the frame the actors can't see, in this case the rule can be stated as what is not shown doesn't mean something didn't happen.

You have to assume that Tuco & Blondie were together enough for Blondie to get to know Tuco's habbits, his style of shooting, the sound and cadence of his shots, etc., etc.

During their con games those all had to take place over a period of weeks, later after the double cross when Tuco chases Blondie down he keeps checking the campfires to see how old the trail is each campfire is a night.

During the desert sequence for instance what I would think had to be a couple of days was condenced into what 10-15 minutes of screen time.

During the wagon ride after the mission, they are covering a lot of time and territory remember when Tuco pulls out the map they have a lot of ground to cover as he describes their treck, that might be a weeks worth of of travel.
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