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Author Topic: Almost Spaghetti?:Guide to Leone influenced Euro & American Westerns  (Read 44390 times)
Banjo
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« on: October 30, 2005, 05:05:26 AM »

GOOD(very good or exceptional!)

WILD BUNCH*
HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER
TWO MULES FOR SISTER SARAH
GUNS FOR SAN SEBASTIAN*
LONG RIDERS*
WELCOME TO HARD TIMES
PALE RIDER
RED SUN*
100 RIFLES*
HANG EM HIGH

BAD(but entertaining?)

CHATO'S LAND*
SHALAKO*
EL CONDOR
JOE KIDD

UGLY(little, if any redeeming features!)

TOWN CALLED HELL*
PANCHO VILLA

* indicates where movie is discussed on a  thread elsewhere

Thought it would be fun to start this as an offshoot to Cigar Joes excellent SW guide.
When American westerns were flagging in the early 1960's with few being produced,and TV westerns coming to the fore,Sergio Leone's Fistful of Dollars together with Morricones groundbreaking score rewrote the western rulebook.Along with Leones later films and westerns by his Italian director contempories the whole genre was turned on its head resulting in a major knock-on effect on many future American and (non-Italian)Euro westerns.This new breed of western was coming out with a greater emphasis on (violent) action,a whittling down of dialogue and boring romance and very often the inclusion of an ANTI-hero.
I have included above the movies i feel are spaghetti flavoured in someway whether it is in style eg HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER or WILD BUNCH,filmed in Almeria,Spain eg CHATO'S LAND or TOWN CALLED HELL,contains a Morricone soundtrack eg GUNS FOR SAN SEBASTIAN or TWO MULES FOR SISTER SARAH or maybe just because it  includes a SW megastar eg EL CONDOR or RED SUN.Grey areas don't exist here i'm afraid!
 Where i've placed each individual title doesn't necessarily reflect my opinions and i have refered to any available threads on this site where certain movies have been discussed and i have marked such movie with a star.I haven't yet seen 100 RIFLES or RED SUN but have instead relied on Cigar Joe's write-ups here.
   By no means are each placement set in stone and i'm quite happy to promote/relegate a movie up/down a notch due to any major disagreements.I'm not going to get too hot under the collar for what i consider as secondary to SW's.
I am aware that there must be many ommisions such as HUNTING PARTY or BARQUERO and i will be grateful for as much help as is provided!

« Last Edit: October 30, 2005, 07:59:00 AM by banjo » Logged
Banjo
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« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2005, 05:30:27 AM »

Before anyone says anything,El Condor and (i think) Red Sun were also both filmed in Almeria,but i think you know where i was coming from!!!

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cigar joe
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« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2005, 03:14:30 PM »

How would you classify "A Man Called Sledge" it should be in this catagory rather than as in Hughes' book as a Spaghetti?

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« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2005, 02:02:11 AM »

I sincerely hope this is a SW otherwise the count of my collection will have to go down by one,hehe.
Seeing that you have included it on your "B" list on the Leone Lovers SW Guide,from which i've tried to make this guide an offshoot,to avoid any confusion i think i'll leave this off here!!
Cigar Joe,i guess you may have seen a few more post-FOD American westerns than myself,and perhaps you could suggest any spaghetti influenced titles i could add  here?

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« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2005, 04:13:52 AM »

Well Vic Morrow director of "A Man Called Sledge" was an actor/director best known for his lead in the TV show Combat, and I guess also for dying in a helicopter accident on the set of the "Twilight Zone" movie.

That why its sort of an odd ball SW it must have been Italian financed.

The only two films not on your list that pop into my head is "Valdez is Comming" with Burt Lancaster, (he's tied to a cross in one sequence) and El Topo a SW influenced buddist mish-mash of a film.

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« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2005, 05:24:51 AM »

Cigar Joe,could you suggest where i could place these 2 movies here,because i'm quite happy to make this guide a collective effort?

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« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2005, 05:52:35 PM »

Valdez is Comming would be under Good.

El Topo is an oddball

Parts of El Topo if you could separate them would be Good Bad and Ugly. As a whole probably Bad.

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« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2005, 05:00:18 AM »

Thanks for that CJ and i notice you did start an El Topo thread where opinion seems to be divided,but i might just slot it in provisionally as a bad film.I'll update the guide shortly while i'm considering whether i should include any more Eastwood directed westerns or The Professionals from 1966.What do you think?

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« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2005, 05:16:37 AM »

definitely the Professionals , I though it was already on the list  Grin, I always link it with The Wild Bunch.

I think you have all the obvious of Clints, The Outlaw Joesy Wales is more AW of the post SW influenced period. We gradually got back to these PC type films with "authentic" dialoge and "romantic melodrama".

Thankly we have "Deadwood" to keep it real.

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« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2005, 05:28:52 AM »

OK CJ, i was thinking the same about Josey Wales but i reckon i'm right to include Pale Rider which bares similarities to his Leone roles.
Haven't seen Deadwood!

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« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2005, 07:25:14 PM »

Add Villa Rides to the GOOD, and see it if you can.

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« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2005, 03:16:14 AM »

GOOD(very good or exceptional!)

WILD BUNCH*
HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER
TWO MULES FOR SISTER SARAH
GUNS FOR SAN SEBASTIAN*
LONG RIDERS*
WELCOME TO HARD TIMES
PALE RIDER
RED SUN*
100 RIFLES*
HANG EM HIGH
VALDEZ IS COMING
THE PROFESSIONALS
VILLA RIDES*

BAD(but entertaining?)

CHATO'S LAND*
SHALAKO*
EL CONDOR
JOE KIDD
EL TOPO*

UGLY(little, if any redeeming features!)

TOWN CALLED HELL*
PANCHO VILLA

* indicates where movie is discussed on a  thread elsewhere

Thanks Cigar Joe for keeping this new guide up on its legs and i've added on your suggestions.I'm hoping British tv will screen the titles i haven't seen sooner or later but in view of the pending SW season starting tonight i'm not going to complain,yet!
My next door neighbour has just lent to me ITALIAN WESTERN:The Opera of Violence which i've just started reading,great pictures btw,and so far it references the following spaghetti-influenced Amercian westerns:-Will Penny,Big Jake,More Dead Than Alive and Five Savage Men.I'm sure i've seen the first two but can't remember them to rate them but never heard of the other two?
    I'm going to have another look at my video recording of Peckinpahs Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid which was pretty violent i think if a little slow.I watched Major Dundee fairly recently on TV but i think it was pretty American in style.Haven't see any other of Peckinpahs post-FOD westerns  though.
    If anyone else can suggest anymore titles i'll be very happy to add them on to the guide!

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« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2005, 06:50:06 AM »

GOOD(very good or exceptional!)

WILD BUNCH(1969,Sam Peckinpah/William Holden)*
HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER(1973,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
TWO MULES FOR SISTER SARAH(1970,Siegel/Eastwood)
GUNS FOR SAN SEBASTIAN(1968,H.Verneuil/A.Quinn)*
LONG RIDERS(1980,Walter Hill/David Carradine)*
WELCOME TO HARD TIMES(1967,B.Kennedy/H. Fonda)
PALE RIDER(1985,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
RED SUN(1971,Terence Young/Charles Bronson)*
100 RIFLES(1969,Tom Gries/Jim Brown/Burt Reynolds)*
HANG EM HIGH(1968,Ted Post/Clint Eastwood)
VALDEZ IS COMING(1971,E.Sherin/Burt Lancaster)
THE PROFESSIONALS(1966,Richard Brooks/Lee Marvin)
VILLA RIDES(1968,Buzz Kulik/Yul Brynner)*
PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID(1973,Peckinpah/Coburn)

BAD(but entertaining?)

CHATO'S LAND(1972 Michael Winner/Charles Bronson)*
SHALAKO(1968,Edward Dymytryk/Sean Connery)*
EL CONDOR(1970,John Guillermin/Jim Brown/Van Cleef)
JOE KIDD(1972,John Sturges/Clint Eastwood)
EL TOPO(1970,A.Jodorowsky/Jodorowsky)*

UGLY(little, if any redeeming features!)

TOWN CALLED HELL(1971,Robert Parrish/Robert Shaw) *
PANCHO VILLA(1972,Eugenio Martin/Telly Savales)

In brackets are original release year,director and star(s).

* indicates where movie is discussed on a  thread elsewhere

In this guide update which now includes original release year of each western,movie director and main star(s),i have added on Sam Peckinpahs Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid on the same grounds as Wild Bunch regarding the violence and new realism of this much hackneyed tale.

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« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2005, 06:16:43 AM »

GOOD(very good or exceptional!)

WILD BUNCH(1969,Sam Peckinpah/William Holden)*
HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER(1973,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
TWO MULES FOR SISTER SARAH(1970,Siegel/Eastwood)
GUNS FOR SAN SEBASTIAN(1968,H.Verneuil/A.Quinn)*
LONG RIDERS(1980,Walter Hill/David Carradine)*
WELCOME TO HARD TIMES(1967,B.Kennedy/H. Fonda)
PALE RIDER(1985,Clint Eastwood/Eastwood)
RED SUN(1971,Terence Young/Charles Bronson)*
100 RIFLES(1969,Tom Gries/Jim Brown/Burt Reynolds)*
HANG EM HIGH(1968,Ted Post/Clint Eastwood)
VALDEZ IS COMING(1971,E.Sherin/Burt Lancaster)
THE PROFESSIONALS(1966,Richard Brooks/Lee Marvin)*
VILLA RIDES(1968,Buzz Kulik/Yul Brynner)*
PAT GARRETT & BILLY THE KID(1973,Peckinpah/Coburn)
THE DESERTER(1971,Burt Kennedy/Chuck Connors)
WILL PENNY(1968,Tom Gries/Charlton Heston)*

BAD(but entertaining?)

CHATO'S LAND(1972 Michael Winner/Charles Bronson)*
SHALAKO(1968,Edward Dymytryk/Sean Connery)*
EL CONDOR(1970,John Guillermin/Jim Brown/Van Cleef)
JOE KIDD(1972,John Sturges/Clint Eastwood)
EL TOPO(1970,A.Jodorowsky/Jodorowsky)*

UGLY(little, if any redeeming features!)

TOWN CALLED HELL(1971,Robert Parrish/Robert Shaw) *
PANCHO VILLA(1972,Eugenio Martin/Telly Savalas)

UNRATED WESTERNS(help needed-please!!)

BIG JAKE(1971,George Sherman/John Wayne)
MORE DEAD THAN ALIVE(1968,R.Sparr/Clint Waker)
FIVE SAVAGE MEN(1970,Ron Joy/Henry Silva)

In brackets are original release year,director and star(s).

* indicates where movie is discussed on a  thread elsewhere

On Tims suggestion i have today added The Deserter to the "goods" as among other things it was filmed in Almeria.I have been reading Italian Western:An Opera of Violence by Laurence Staig and Tony Williams which cite Will Penny as spaghetti influenced so i've also added this.They also  cite Big Jake(on the strength of Richard Boone wearing a poncho,a villain similar to Bud Spencer and increased use of violence in the opening scene),More Dead Than Alive and Five Savage Men as USA films influenced by SW's.I haven't seen any of these so i have listed them as unrated and anyones assistance here would be greatly appreciated!

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« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2005, 09:52:36 AM »

More of a modern day film but how about P Cosmatos' Tombstone with Kurt Russel, Val Kilmer, Robert Mitchum, Dana Delaney, Charlton Heston, Powers Booth, Micheal Beihn and Bill Paxton. In the R1 Vista series DVD there is a nod to European (presumably spaghetti) films and its (in my opinion) a darn good western. Not amazing but it pushes most of the right buttons.

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