Sergio Leone Web Board
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
August 15, 2018, 01:42:47 AM
:


+  Sergio Leone Web Board
|-+  Films of Sergio Leone
| |-+  Once Upon A Time In The West (Moderators: cigar joe, moviesceleton, Dust Devil)
| | |-+  The best movie ever made...
0 and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 13
: The best movie ever made...  ( 76019 )
Groggy
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11458


This post gets Agnew's stamp of approval!


« #45 : September 25, 2003, 06:35:28 PM »

What I'm saying is
Just because a movie strikes your fancy, or arouses some desires, or looks great visually, doesn't make it a great film. If it did, T2 would be head of the class.

IMO(and that of many film students) ONCE/WEST (like most of Leone's films)has a very poor script. The pacing is terrific, visually it is superb, but there is no story.
 
Three plus hours of self concious camera moves elevated to an operatic level by Morricone's score does not a story make.

Without a true story to tell, Sergio dazzles with smoke and mirrors. I love the movie, tops of the genre, but not a GREAT film, let alone greatest of all time.

And who can tell if Claudia can act-she's dubbed in the English language version.


A "true story"?  Okay . . . what do you consider a "true story"?  There is no such thing as an original plot when it comes to Westerns, even movies.  Everything is a remake, parody, or reworking of something.

As for your comment on Claudia - by your logic, no one in the film can act then, because EVERYONE was dubbed in the filmed (the Americans by themselves of course, but they were dubbed).  Though I think she did a great job here, see some of Claudia's other work ("8 1/2", "The Leopard") before you put her down as just a piece of furniture.



Saturday nights with Groggy
visitor
Bandido
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 144



« #46 : September 26, 2003, 03:02:42 AM »

So, what exactly is the "story" to ONCE/WESt?
You have 5 main characters and all they represent are greed and revenge.
Three hours of "kill or be killed"is not a "story".
What are the character arcs?
Even DUCK YOU SUCKER, which I don't enjoy as much, has a better "story".

Your attempt to twist my meaning "re:dubbing" is a juvenile argument.
The producers obviously didn't trust her with her own delivery.
I've seen plenty of performances by Ms Cardinale where she spoke her own lines-her delivery in English is very wooden. Not as a character who is using a second language such as Toshiro Mifune in RED SUN, but as someone using a teleprompter.

Angel Eyes
Bandido
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 137


I'll ask the questions!


« #47 : September 27, 2003, 04:23:45 PM »

I thought the things that make a movie really great is the attention to detail, the lighting, editing, props, sets, costumes, dialogue...

Not only does ONCE/WEST "arouse some desires and look great visually" it has all the above and more.

Dont forget this is a story within a genre, we didnt really want Citizen Kane meets the Indians, did we?


Now there's an idea, spaghetti noir.

Groggy
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11458


This post gets Agnew's stamp of approval!


« #48 : September 27, 2003, 04:47:51 PM »

I thought the things that make a movie really great is the attention to detail, the lighting, editing, props, sets, costumes, dialogue...

Not only does ONCE/WEST "arouse some desires and look great visually" it has all the above and more.

Dont forget this is a story within a genre, we didnt really want Citizen Kane meets the Indians, did we?


Now there's an idea, spaghetti noir.

Thanks for the save, Angel Eyes. ;D Very good points.



Saturday nights with Groggy
Angel Eyes
Bandido
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 137


I'll ask the questions!


« #49 : September 27, 2003, 05:02:04 PM »

Thanks for the save, Angel Eyes. ;D Very good points.


Dont mention it, amigo.

visitor
Bandido
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 144



« #50 : September 28, 2003, 05:00:42 AM »

I thought the things that make a movie really great is the attention to detail, the lighting, editing, props, sets, costumes, dialogue...

Not only does ONCE/WEST "arouse some desires and look great visually" it has all the above and more.

Dont forget this is a story within a genre, we didnt really want Citizen Kane meets the Indians, did we?


Now there's an idea, spaghetti noir.

By the above criteria, ATTACK OF THE CLONES would rate as the greatest film ever made.

IMO, ONCE/WEST is not a western, but a critique of the western genre.

It is a movie ABOUT movies, not about gunfighters, or widows, or businessman. The characters are superfluous to what Leone was doing.

It plays so well because it is obviously Sergio's most personal film. He is not detached from his subject matter, but fully immersed in it. That's because the subject of the film is the directing ability and style of Sergio Leone.


This is how I would have shot the opening of HIGH NOON

This is how I would have shot the ranch scenes in THE SEARCHERS

This is how I would have handled "star cameos" like in HOW THE WEST WAS WON

etc etc etcetc..........

SL spends three hours critiquing the cliches of the American westerns, a genre he obviously held dear to his heart.


Angel Eyes
Bandido
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 137


I'll ask the questions!


« #51 : September 28, 2003, 09:27:11 PM »

By the above criteria, ATTACK OF THE CLONES would rate as the greatest film ever made.

IMO, ONCE/WEST is not a western, but a critique of the western genre.

It is a movie ABOUT movies, not about gunfighters, or widows, or businessman. The characters are superfluous to what Leone was doing.


It plays so well because it is obviously Sergio's most personal film. He is not detached from his subject matter, but fully immersed in it. That's because the subject of the film is the directing ability and style of Sergio Leone.


This is how I would have shot the opening of HIGH NOON

This is how I would have shot the ranch scenes in THE SEARCHERS

This is how I would have handled "star cameos" like in HOW THE WEST WAS WON

etc etc etcetc..........

SL spends three hours critiquing the cliches of the American westerns, a genre he obviously held dear to his heart.



Firstly, I dont recall seeing any sets on Attack of the Clones, or seeing any great cinematography or hearing any great dialogue etc.etc, the same goes for T2 and Lord of the Rings and all the other modern films that equate to watching nothing more than a video game created on sound stages the size of a keyboard and mouse.

I thought ONCE/WEST was a film about the birth of a town and the characters within that subject matter.
The film IS full of western cliches, most of them created by SL himself in his earlier films, with a few nods and winks to his favourite films and directors.
I think there is more to it than mere self indulgence and showing off.

You have raised some very interesting talking points Visitor.
Respect due.

« : September 28, 2003, 09:29:10 PM Angel Eyes »
Jupa
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 262


Viva Leone!


« #52 : November 07, 2003, 03:45:39 AM »

Greatest film?  Well, as far as I'm concerned, that's flux.  My top three are "The Godfather", "The Road to Perdition", and "Saving Private Ryan"; I can never decide which is my favorite at any given time.  OUATITW is fourth definitely, though.

And it may surprise you, but "The X-Files" isn't my favorite TV series; "Blackadder II" and the British version of "Cracker" beat it out.  Still up there definitely though.  ;D

I see.Your former nic just gave me to understand that the Files would number one for you,too.

Groggy
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11458


This post gets Agnew's stamp of approval!


« #53 : November 07, 2003, 07:22:43 AM »

I see.Your former nic just gave me to understand that the Files would number one for you,too.

Well, NOW it is.  At last post it wasn't.  ::) Sorry for the confusion, Jupa.

What's your favorite episode, just out of curiosity?  Mine would be "One Breath".



Saturday nights with Groggy
Jupa
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 262


Viva Leone!


« #54 : December 06, 2003, 04:48:48 AM »

Quote
this fim is the SPACE ODYSSY of westerns 2001 a space odyssy could have been ONCE UPON A TIME IN SPACE and OUATITW could have been 1888 A WESTERN ODYSSY

LOL,nicely put.  :D

Once Upon a Time in the West, the Space Odyssey of westerns: 1888, A Western Odyssey.

DJIMBO
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 491


Who are you?


« #55 : December 14, 2003, 04:09:20 AM »

ok so GBU is perfectly paced.
But no flashbacks! Leone's use of flashbacks is better here than in FAFDM and OUATIA. The end shootout where Harmonica flashes back to himself as a young boy being tortured is my favourite moment in cinema and McBain massacre is up there too.
I think it's the greatest film of all time (with the possible exception of Seven Samurai or Citizen Kane) and certainly better than The Wild Bunch!!


Dave Jenkins, Calder Benson, Jim Cooper, Chuck Youngblood. They were all alive until they met you, Frank.
Jupa
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 262


Viva Leone!


« #56 : December 17, 2003, 04:44:51 AM »

I just very recently watched Once Upon a Time in the West for the first time, and I would say that it became one of my favorite westerns. I still like GBU more, but this was very good.

I'm glad Charles Bronson played the part of Harmonica. If Clint Eastwood had, it would have been too much of a departure from his character from the Dollars trilogy (those movies stand alone perfectly). Well, I don't suppose a big departure, but there would still have been a harmonica present.

For me,GBU is number two.I also think Bronson was the best man to play the role of Harmonica.I think it was Bronson's best role ever.I could not think any other person for Harmonica.

Jupa
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 262


Viva Leone!


« #57 : January 02, 2004, 03:40:08 AM »

Well, NOW it is.  At last post it wasn't.  ::) Sorry for the confusion, Jupa.

What's your favorite episode, just out of curiosity?  Mine would be "One Breath".

Oh,it's all right.It's good to know that you've come to your senses.  :)

My favourite episode...Well,it's hard to pick one single episode,but Darkness Falls and Requiem were great.But there may be some others too...

Il Buono
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 348


You're the son of a thousand fathers!


« #58 : January 02, 2004, 04:17:58 AM »

Visitor, you have said some interesting things here.  I must agree with what you said about Leone wanting to improve this scene and that scene and so...  But what you said about the story I cannot agree.  Firstly I don't think that a movie needs a complex, mature 'story'.  Check Kill Bill.  Westerns are not really about story too.  It's about characters and gunfights.  We like it because it brings up the child in us.  

Although I think OUTIW hs a story, even more complex than most films.  When you talk about character arcs and so, it's all in the film.   I guess you are talking about how characters have to change from beginning to ending.  But isn't staying stable in a changing world also changing?  Gary Cooper in High Noon knew what he stood for and he stayed almost the same throughout the whole picture.  So are Harmonica and Cheyenne here.  Frank changes from self-confident man in the beginning to a man who knows he's gonna die (cf the duel).
 I think it is even a wonderful screenplay if you consider it, because it's about this woman... only not.  To me, she seems more like the fundament where the house is built on.  So it starts off with this so-called main character, but Harmonica and Cheyenne are the ones we're really interested in and fill in the whole story.

This is a really interesting piece of storytelling if you ask me.

And for those looking for the perfect formula for a picture, good luck because I think a lot of people searched for it.   ;)


Your ass is grass... And I am the lawnmower
shorty larsen
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 542


Agachate tonto


« #59 : January 02, 2004, 01:38:16 PM »

I agree with you Buono. A movie doesn't need a "complex" or "mature" story.

Cinema is, first of all, video and sound. Of course, there is a hierarchy in video and sound. But cinema is that, first of all. Treatment of light and sound. And I would include THE WAY YOU TELL THE STORY.

If you have an excelent movie from the point of view of video and sound, and an excellent plot, the you have a masterpiece.

OUTW is a masterpiece.

I agree with the example of Kill Bill, wich is a huge movie to me. There is NO STORY AT ALL. Nothing. But it is Tarantino, and it is his way of telling this non-existing story.

Cinema is video and sound.

If you want a good story, you hace to read a book.


Each one for himself, and God against all.
: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 13  
« previous next »
:  



Visit FISTFUL-OF-LEONE.COM

SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
0.058139