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| | |-+  How do Angel Eyes and Tuco know each other
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Author Topic: How do Angel Eyes and Tuco know each other  (Read 23349 times)
cigar joe
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« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2007, 09:09:16 PM »

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Yeah, but Frank and Harmonica do not exist in the same space-time continuum occupied by the GBU characters. The GBU West is like our own (American Civil War, etc.), but the OUATITW West is very different (no Golden Spike, a single private railroad building a transcontinental line from east to west, etc.) I speculate that what accounts for these differences is that there was no Civil War in the OUATITW world; this resulted in a longer States Rights period, making interstate issues thornier, slowing progress and modernization generally. Perhaps the events in OUATITW even occur as late as 1968......

It may be that OUTITW occurred as late as 1883




« Last Edit: September 03, 2007, 09:11:43 PM by cigar joe » Logged

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« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2007, 09:15:23 PM »

I would assume from the way the movie is presented that it takes place somewhere between the late 1870's to 1900.


Now that I think about it, I wonder how long the time span in the movie is. I remember someone saying that the events in GBU took about 1 year.

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« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2007, 09:34:01 PM »

If you count the flash back then its probably one of the longest time spans of a Leone Western.

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« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2007, 09:37:46 PM »

If you count the flash back then its probably one of the longest time spans of a Leone Western.

I meant without the flashbacks.


I think the movie time span is a week.

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cigar joe
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« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2007, 09:41:26 PM »

yea without I agree.

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« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2007, 09:32:03 AM »

Joe, interesting, but the A&P never built their transcontinental RR:

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ATLANTIC AND PACIFIC RAILROAD. The Atlantic and Pacific Railroad Company was chartered in New York State in 1852 for the purpose of constructing a transcontinental railroad. The initial capitalization was $100,000,000. Anson Jones became a stockholder and director and was made commissioner to Texas. Richard J. Walker, former United States Secretary of the Treasury under President James T. Polk, and former Georgia Congressman T. Butler King were the primary promoters of the project. The company wanted to secure the sole franchise for a transcontinental railroad and acquired the charter of the Texas Western for $600,000 in stock and an option to purchase the other transcontinental projects chartered by the state. As a result, the Atlantic and Pacific was the only company to submit a bid that met the provisions of the Mississippi and Pacific act of 1853. However, the securities the company offered as bond were rejected by Governor Elisha M. Peaseqv and the contract was canceled. At a meeting held in Montgomery, Alabama, on December 16, 1854, the promoters reorganized under the Texas Western charter, as all hopes of building a transcontinental railroad by the Atlantic and Pacific had ended.

Then another company was chartered using the same name:

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The Atlantic and Pacific Railroad was chartered by an Act of Congress in 1866. It was to run westward from Springfield, Missouri, through Indian Territory, thence to San Francisco along the 35th parallel. John C. Fremont headed the company, which was composed of investors from the eastern United States. The company also acquired the bankrupt South West Branch of the Pacific Railroad to ensure access into St. Louis. The South West Branch left the main line of the Pacific Railroad at Franklin (now Pacific), Mo., and had reached Rolla by 1860, but the Civil War bankrupted the road. The State of Missouri seized the line in 1865, re-named it the Southwest Pacific Railroad, and operated it until the sale to Fremont.

So, OUATITW is dealing with Alternate History.

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« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2007, 09:50:38 AM »

Here's some more on the second A&P RR:

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On December 11, 1865, a bill granting lands to aid in the construction of a railway and telegraph line from Missouri and Arkansas to the Pacific coast by the southern route was introduced in the Senate; it was referred to the committee on
Pacific railroads favorable reported, and became a law on July 27, 1866, by the signature of President Johnson. The Atlantic and Pacific was the result.

This was the first company chartered and aided by Congress to construct a Pacific railway over the southern route, and by its agency the fourth through route between the East and the Pacific coast was opened.

Beginning at or near Springfield, Mo., the road was to proceed to the Canadian river and to Albuquerque, thence along the thirty-fifth parallel to the Colorado-and to the Pacific. From its intersection with the Canadian river a branch was to be extended eastwardly to the border of the Arkansas.

In addition to a two-hundred-foot right of way and the usual right to take materials from adjacent public lands, a land grant of twenty odd-numbered sections per mile on each side of its line was made. This applied only to the territories; within the bounds of a state the donation was but half as large. The railway company was to receive the lands by twenty-five mile sections as such sections were reported satisfactorily completed by an examining commission.

The road was to be of uniform gauge, equal in all respects to railways of the first class, and its rails of the best quality of American iron.

It is notable that in this charter Congress provided that, if the route taken should coincide with another road which had received government aid, the previous grant would be deducted; and especially this, -“that no money shall be drawn from the treasury of the United States to aid in the construction of the said Atlantic and Pacific Railroad. By 1866 Congress had become more wary than in 1862.

Then, too, the act required that $1,000,000 be subscribed and 10 per cent be paid in within two years, that construction be begun in two years, that not less than fifty miles a year be built after the second year from beginning and that the whole should be completed by July 4, 1878, finally that if any violation of the act was continued through one year, the government might complete the road.

Other provisions made the railway a post route and military road; provided that government rates should be no higher than to individuals for similar transportation, required sworn annual reports to the secretary of the interior, and reserved the right to alter, amend or repeal.

Two further provisions remain for special attention. One of the chief grounds of discussion over the bill arose from the fact that the line of the road crossed Indian lands. The Cherokees and Chickasaws objected to the section which made it the duty of the United States to extinguish Indian titles as rapidly as might be consistent with public policy and the welfare of the Indians, and , as finally passed, the bill provided that extinguishment should be only by the voluntary cession of the Indians.

The other provision authorized the Southern Pacific Railroad of California to connect with the Atlantic and Pacific at any point near the eastern boundary of California for the purpose of forming a line to San Francisco. The Southern Pacific, if such connection were made, was to make its gauge and rates uniform with those of the Atlantic and Pacific and was to receive the same grants - subject to the same obligations - as the latter road. Thus Congress met the Southern Pacific for the first time and largely aided the road which was soon to monopolize transcontinental traffic over the southern route; but of that, more will be said further on.

In 1867 and 1868 bills were introduced to amend the above act and to further facilitate the construction of the road, but made little of no headway. And in 1869 a joint resolution to extend the time for construction came to nothing. These measures are to be taken in connection with the fact that the Atlantic and Pacific project almost immediately fell into financial difficulties and constructed no mileage until 1871, in which year the census of 1880 credits the company with 33.87 miles of line, all lying in Indian Territory. Accordingly, in 1870, in connection with another bill to amend the charter, we find citizens of New Mexico objecting to aiding a company which could not build the road. It was simply holding the line of the thirty-fifth parallel and keeping others out. The railway company maintained that as the right of way had not been obtained from the Indians it should be relieved of the requirements to construct fifty miles per year beyond the western line of Missouri.

The final outcome of the company’s efforts for further government relief came in 1871 when an act to enable the Atlantic and Pacific Railroad Company to mortgage its road was passed. By this act the company was authorized to mortgage its road, franchises, lands etc., the mortgage to be filed and recorded with the secretary of the interior. This included no government guaranty. Later - immediately following the crisis of 1873 - vain attempts were made to get the United States to guarantee the company’s bonds.

In 1872 the company leased the Pacific railroad of Missouri, later the Missouri Pacific, whcih it operated until 1875; and in November of that year it went into the hands of the receiver.

« Last Edit: September 04, 2007, 09:52:56 AM by dave jenkins » Logged


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cigar joe
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« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2007, 11:06:30 AM »

I realized it never got built but thinking thats where they got their Idea.

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« Reply #38 on: October 06, 2007, 10:25:22 PM »

From reading western novels and seeing quite a bit of the genre I gather that good gunmen usually know each other (especially if they're in the same geographical area).  So it came as no surprise that Tuco, Angel Eyes and Blondie knew each other.  At lest they must have heard of each other before.  An example of this knowledge of each other can also be found in Eastwood's "Unforgiven."  Little Bill knew who English Bob was and Bob knew him too.  When Little Bill was told that one of the "assassins" was William Muni he knew who Will Muni was.   In the west gunmen had reputations and this traveled far.  Even in the train carriage someone knew English Bob.  So it was no surprise that the three in the Good, Bad and the Ugly knew each other.

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