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Author Topic: A question to French speaking people  (Read 71477 times)
Sanjuro
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« on: May 05, 2003, 03:08:59 AM »

This is not directly related to Leone, but about a film with Gian Maria Volonte, called "Le Cercle Rouge" by great late Jean Pierre Melville. You may have seen this recently since John Woo is presenting the uncut version in the US now.

This has been haunting me for 30 years ever since I saw this in Japan.

Translation of the very last line by Volonte is the key line of this film, but it's different from print to print. I have a video of this film. Its translation is also different from all prints I've seen.

At the end of the film, Volonte comes to rescue Delon from the trap set by police (Andre Bourvil). Boulvil asks Volote, "Why didn't you tell him who I am?"

Volonte's answer is, by one translation, "If I did, you would have been killed," while by other translations, his answer is "He (Delon) would not have left, otherwise," or "It doesn't matter," or "It's our code."

If some of you understand French, can you tell me what Volonte's answer really is?

I'd appreciate if you could solve my mystery of 30 years!

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« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2003, 04:43:00 AM »





At the end of the film, Volonte comes to rescue Delon from the trap set by police (Andre Bourvil). Boulvil asks Volote, "Why didn't you tell him who I am?"

Volonte's answer is, by one translation, "If I did, you would have been killed," while by other translations, his answer is "He (Delon) would not have left, otherwise," or "It doesn't matter," or "It's our code."

If some of you understand French, can you tell me what Volonte's answer really is?

I'd appreciate if you could solve my mystery of 30 years!

The right answer is " if I did,  you would have been killed"
regards.
You know, I think that JP  Melville is a wonderful movie Director: John Woo  and Quentin Tarantino often gave a tribute to him. But JPM was French, directing french actors , speaking french... too difficult for our young worlwide spectators !  Wink

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Sanjuro
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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2003, 02:09:24 AM »

Thank you so much for your reply. You have cleared my long time nagging question. Yes, if Volonte says, "If I did, you would have been killed," that really makes sense as a Melville film. That really conveys the spirit of Melville.

What you say is true. Melville's films are not understood well, especially in the States, I'm afraid to say. I have never met anybody who gives a praise to his "Samourai" in the States. It's sad.

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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2003, 02:35:26 AM »

 I agree with you.  I 'm sure that Leone's fans would be happy to  better know Melville opus.
The beginning of "Samouraï" is very interesting: no words, tough guy alone, good music, obscure past.  
Jeff Costello could be a Leone's character.
May be it's the reason why JPM hired Gian-Maria Volonte as a spaghetti-western actor for "Red Circle "?

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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2003, 03:05:32 AM »

Actually, Melville hired Volonte because he saw Volonte in Carlo Lizzani's "Bandits in Milan." But as it turned out, Melville hated Volonte. Melville didn't like Volonte's acting method.

Originally, Melviille wanted to hire Jean-Paul Belmondo for  Volonte's role (It would have been another "Borsalino").

But as far as I see, Volonte looks just fine in "Le Cercle Rouge."

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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2003, 03:48:45 AM »

Guys, please forgive me - I don't know this French director, nor the movie you are talking about (entirely my fault...), but please just let me say I cannot conceive two actors more different from each other than Volonte and Belmondo.
I can only imagine that any movie whatsoever could have been completely different if Belmondo had acted instead of Volonte, and vice versa.
...
Sorry for my intrusion  Wink

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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2003, 07:32:57 AM »

Guys, please forgive me - I don't know this French director, nor the movie you are talking about (entirely my fault...), but please just let me say I cannot conceive two actors more different from each other than Volonte and Belmondo.
I can only imagine that any movie whatsoever could have been completely different if Belmondo had acted instead of Volonte, and vice versa.
...
Sorry for my intrusion  Wink

 In fact at the beginning Belmondo  played tough guy, silencious and undertaking as ...Bogart. With Melville he played in "Le Doulos" Priest Leon Morin"  . After... is an horrible law of entertainment he became a clown  (as De Niro currently in many recent US movies or Depardieu in France who was very good at the beginning ,remember Novecento.
Serious young Belmondo was very closed to Gian Maria

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« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2003, 02:30:30 AM »

Guys, please forgive me - I don't know this French director, nor the movie you are talking about (entirely my fault...),
...
Sorry for my intrusion  Wink

GuyBrush for your information , from John WOO:
1970) Impassive faces, snap-brim hats, dangling cigarettes, sunglasses after dark, raincoats without rain, nightclub floor shows, and a prologue quote from an ersatz Indian mystic: ?When men are to meet one day, whatever may befall them, whatever their diverging paths, they will inevitably come together in the Red Circle.? We?re unmistakably in the milieu of Jean-Pierre Melville, doyen of the New Wave and prince of the fate-haunted French gangster picture (Le Doulos, Bob Le Flambeur, Le Samourai), here, for his penultimate work in the genre (?a digest of all the thriller-type films I have made?) bringing together four archetypal hommes durs for their appointment with destiny: prisoner-in-transit Gian Maria Volonte, crashing (literally) out of the train that?s taking him from Marseilles to Paris, to the dismay of his police escort, the relentless Inspector Mattei (played by French comedy legend Bourvil, cast against type for his final role); ex-cop Yves Montand, moving from hopeless DT-plagued drunk to dapper, rock-steady sharpshooter; and Alain Delon ? both art film super-star (for Antonioni and Visconti, among others) and action anti-hero (most memorably as Melville?s taciturn Samourai) ? on his first day out of the joint reclaiming gun and money, and shrugging off two murder attempts. All join forces for a meticulously-orchestrated heist of a Place Vendôme bijouterie (?choreographed like a bullfight with Delon the matador in white gloves and full-face mask? ? J. Hoberman), a silent tour-de-force in the grand movie tradition of Rififi, Topkapi, and The Asphalt Jungle.

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« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2004, 02:10:55 AM »

Because i'm french, this question is only for french people (or half french, ok shorty  Wink ). I know that there is a few here.

Well... as it as been said in an other topic, I would like to shoot a short western this summer with a few friends. I've just one problem: i need costums.
So, as Leone's fans, I suppose that some of you have a few interesting stuffs (because of my love for leone's movies, I bought myself a duster, 1 peacemaker, 1 colt navy...).

The question is: could you help me to find all the free costums and accessorys i need?

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« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2004, 11:34:28 AM »

scuse me, but I'm going to write in French:
J'ai moi même un projet de western (je l'écris en ce moment). Malheureeusement, je suis dans ton cas, je cherche également des costumes. Je te souhaite bonne chance, et espère que tu les trouvera...
Je voudrais juste savoir où tu comptes tourner ton film. Et surtout, donnes nous des nouvelles!!! Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2004, 07:33:23 AM »

I beg your pardon if we write in french, but it seems that a little froggy club has born!!!

Je n'ai absolument aucun costume qui puisse te servir, désolé. Il faudrait voir dans les magasins pour carnaval, et encore...

Mais avec quel budget tu penses faire ton film? parce que tu peux trouver n'importe quoi sur internet, même les costumes du film OUTW, quand on a de l'argent!

Tu habites où? Et où est  ce que tu penses faire ton film?Huh

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« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2004, 10:21:34 PM »

i should have writen "sorry, but we're gonna write in french here" as topic...

on a dépensé jusqu'à aujourd'hui un peu plus de 1000 euros... et on commence à avoir qq costumes convaincants. ça va etre bcp de bricolage, en fait! Mais on a qd même qq accessoirs assez chers qui rendent bien (caches poussières, winchesters...). par contre, je sais qu'il va encore falloir payer (location de chevaux...). J'ai enfin trouvé des allumettes qu'on peut gratter partout, comme clint ds gbu!

sinon, j'habite pas trop loin de versailles, mais on tourne ds le périgord (avec qq (bcp) de plans de coupe de monument valley, ds lesquels on voit parfois des silhouettes à cheval).
Toi, shorty, tu habites vers paris, non?

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« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2004, 09:08:57 AM »

Oui, j'habite dans le XVè, près de Convention, et je m'interesse moi aussi à la réalisation, je prépare l'entrée à la FEMIS en ce moment, même s'il n'y a pas trop d'espoirs.

Tu voudrais nous raconter un peu comment sera le film?

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« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2004, 11:57:29 AM »

Hey! je rentre de ma semaine de tournage (voilà pq je n'ai pas pu repondre à temps), et comme tous ceux qui se sont frottés à la réalisation, le film ne sera pas celui que j'attendais, bien que je pense avoir réussi à rester assez proche.
L'idée de départ, à moitié pompée sur Kill Bill, était de faire un hommage à tous les westerns, en se fondant sur un sénario à tiroirs, sans vraiment de personnage principal. Les deux films (de 10 min chacun) seront découpés en chapitres, chaque chapitre étant un hommage à un style ou à un auteur particulier (leone, peckinpah, ford...). On alterne ainsi entre une scene de discussion dans le bureau du vieux shérif en noir et blanc avec une scene de torture au soleil très leonienne, puis on enchaine sur une bataille avec les morts qui tombent au ralenti.... le fil conducteur étant un révolver, qui passe de main en main.
Les hommages ne seront pas que estetiques; les themes des chapitres st directement tirés des auteurs precedemment cités.
Pour la musique, bcp de bo de films, et bien entendu, notre cher ennio y occupe une place de choix.

Pour répondre à la question, le film sera... irrémédiablement amateur. Il manque des plans pr quelques scenes, ce qui me forcera à adopter ds ces séquences un montage éllyptique et trop moderne/expérimental par rapport au sujet du film. De plus, si je suis plutot content de l'éclairage des scenes d'interieur, le sale temps nous a pourri pas mal de plans, voir même de scenes, en extérieur. Enfin, j'ai du couper un chapitre entier, qui aurait été ds la veine (esthétique seulement; la thematique était plus traditionnelle) de gangs of new york: une partie de poker. (les raisons de cette coupure étant le manque d'acteurs, et le look du saloon, qui est bien trop cheap pr etre aussi baroque: la courte scene qui s'y déroule est donc une de plus à la sergio).

Enfin, on verra... Shorty, je pense que tu trouvera le résultat interressant (à défaut d'etre réussi); nos discussions précédentes sur les moyens d'expressions propres au cinéma m'ont permi de prendre conscience de leur existence et de les utiliser (c'est très pratique qd on n'a aucun acteur capable de soutenir une conversation devant la canéra).
Dernier point, le film contiendra bcp trop d'action... en une semaine, avec temps pourri, en tournant parfois encore à 1h du matin, on n'a pas eu le temps de tourner des scenes qui ne se terminent pas par la mort d'au moins un perso... du coup, ça flingue bcp... mais bon, ça permet de ne pas s'ennuyer, hein? le pb, c'est que j'esperai faire qqc de plus profond. Enfin, la prochaine fois, j'essaie de faire un film sans le moindre mort...

Ah oui, j'oubliais: petit conseil à tous ceux qui se lancent ds un projet comme celui ci: ne jamais prendre d'acteurs ds lesquels on n'a pas confiance à 100%; et ce quel que soit leur talent... j'ai tenté le coup, et deux d'entre eux ne sont pas venus (en tentant de me refiler des fausses excuses!). Ou alors: on les fait payer d'avance (ils ne peuvent plus reculer, après, niark niark).

Shorty larsen, tu tente la fémis? tu n'as pas l'impression que cette école n'ai que la capacité de former au petit cinéma franchouillard? toi qui est à moitié américain, pq ne tentes tu pas qqc aux usa?

Voilmà, dsl pr le pavé Smiley

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« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2004, 06:35:54 AM »

Noodles, c'est en faisant des erreurs qu'on apprend; et meme si ca te soule, dis toi qu'il faut passer par là. Je realise aussi quelques films, et mes erreurs m'ont beaucoup apprises, ce qui me permettra, en temps voulu (je pense dans 5 ou 6 ans) de réaliser moi aussi un western en long métrage. En tout cas ne te décourage pas, et bonne chance pour le montage.
Sinon shorty, tu fais des études de cinéma, autre que la FEMIS?

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