Klaus Kinski Westerns

[Twiceajudas]

Hi,

I am new to the board and would like to talk about the impact Klaus Kinski had on the Spaghetti Westerns. He did 23 movies from 61-77. The following are:

1. And God Said to Cain
2. Beast
3. Black Killer
4. Bullet for the General
5. Fighting Fists of Shanghai Joe
6. Fistful of Death
7. For a Few Dollars More
8. Genius
9. Great Silence
10. His Name Was King
11. I am Sartana, Your Angel of Death
12. Last Ride to Santa Cruz
13. Man: His Pride and His Vengeance
14. Price of Death
15. Return of Clint the Stranger
16. Return of Shanghai Joe
17. Ruthless Four
18. Sartana
19. Shoot the Living...Pray for the Dead
20. Showdown for a Badman
21. Twice a Judas
22. Vengeance is a Dish Served Cold
23. Winnetou: Last of The Renegades


I am interested in hearing opinions of his work from the above movies viewed. I have personally seen all but 23, 22, 20, & 12. Does anyone know if he was considered to do naymore westerns or simply turned down them down?? I think the story ideas of Beast and Twice a Judas had great concepts and could have been great but faultered badly on screen.

[cigar joe]

I've only seen 4, 7, 9, 11 and I didn't think much of 11, quality wise, so really can't help you.

Out of your list which are comparable to the production values believeability and story quality of 4, 7, & 9. Thanks mucho.

[RJSaid]

Wow, great list... I'm gonna have to dig through the western boxsets here now to see if I can find any.

I had no idea he was in Bullet for the General... I've only heard good things about that movie.

Kinski is my favorite actor of all time. I've always wondered how much better "Raiders of the lost ark" would have been if he didnt turn down the role of toth.

[cigar joe]

I've since seen 13 he's very good in that one also, but its a version of Carmen so keep that in mind.

[KERMIT]

this gives me the chance to get on my soapbox. down here i can't find a single one of these films. i'd have to order them and don't have the spare change. a while back cigar joe was kind enough to loan ace high, django and sartana. we need to set up a SW lending library.

the rules should be a set amt. time. then mail back.
the borrower should be responsible enough to replace
w/ haste in case he/she dosn't send back on schedule.
this way more of us could discuss these films thus stimulating our conversations. just an idea. 

[Keoma]

How have most of you seen the really rare spghettii westerns? I have seen a good number of the ones that you can find at video stores and netflix, but, without buying the more obscure ones and spending a lot of money, what do you guys do? Thanks!

[cigar joe]

How have most of you seen the really rare spghettii westerns?

I don't see all that many since I have to purchase them, though I have an Alternative Video down the road that saved me from "Bad Man's River", "Captain Apache", "A Bullet for Sandoval", and of the ones I've purchased from Ebay, or fan sites I've gotten some bad with the good, so I'm pretty wary anymore, one guys gem is anothers crap.

[boardwalk_angel]

we need to set up a SW lending library.
 just an idea. 

I wouldn't mind sharing some of my stuff....it'd be fun ..I dunno how you would set such a thing up.

[Banjo]

In terms of a great performance with a reasonable screen time i haven't so far seen anything come near Kinski's Loco in Great Silence-i'm waiting to see the Shanghai Joe film which is on a budget sw box set i've ordered.
I really like Kinski in Satana Angel of Death but his exit from the movie is one big unsatifactory anti-climax.I can highly recommend getting the relatively obscure Ruthless Four video($5 from Amazon USA) which is not only a half-decent sw but has both an excellent and lengthy performance from Kinski-playing the bad guy btw.

[Hippieoddball1]

Don't forget nobody's the greatest, he's great in that, even though it is just a cameo

[The Firecracker]

Kinski is my favorite actor of all time. I've always wondered how much better "Raiders of the lost ark" would have been if he didnt turn down the role of toth.

wow. It is true. you do learn something everyday.
why the hell did he turn it down? I have read snippets of his own biography saying that he would take any role that came his way, good or bad. being toth would have definatly sky rocketed his career in america.

[Arizona Colt]

I have his biography and he referred to the script of RAIDERS as crap but took the role in the film VENOM instead because it paid more. If you can find a copy all Kinski fans should read it as it's a riot. He only took the western roles that paid the most money. Those were his only reasons for doing any of them. To quote from his book he says of the italian westerns-"Westerns, one after another they got shittier and shittier and the directors got lousier and lousier." I've seen eight on your list. Which films besides SHOOT THE LIVING PRAY FOR THE DEAD and THE GREAT SILENCE does Kinski have a major role in?

[cigar joe]

I think "And God Said to Cain".

[The Firecracker]

I think "And God Said to Cain".

yep.

And also "Black killer" and "the ruthless four" as I hear.

[boardwalk_angel]

Kinski sleepwalked through Shoot The Living..Pray For The Dead. He knew he was in a clunker.
...bad movie..hack director...bad cast.