Sergio Leone Web Board
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
September 23, 2018, 07:14:06 AM
:


+  Sergio Leone Web Board
|-+  Other/Miscellaneous
| |-+  Off-Topic Discussion (Moderators: cigar joe, moviesceleton, Dust Devil)
| | |-+  Doctor Zhivago (1965)
0 and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
: 1 [2] 3 4
: Doctor Zhivago (1965)  ( 16136 )
Jon0
Guest


« #15 : November 25, 2006, 06:50:22 PM »

Also: is the Pasha Antipov character supposed to be based on or inspired by Leon Trotsky?  The bespectacled, fanatical army General dashing across Russia on a train brought Trot to mind for me at least.

Groggy
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11458


This post gets Agnew's stamp of approval!


« #16 : November 26, 2006, 05:53:14 AM »

Question: does anyone know where much of the landscapes were shot for this film?

I'm guessing Colorado?

It was shot almost entirely in Spain, with a few scenes in Finland and Canada.

The really snowy scenes were shot in Finland, without any doubt.  Most of the snow was fake (I believe they said it was marble dust).  The only scene that was shot in Finland was Zhivago's escape from the Partisans, plus a few of the establishing shots of the Russian winter.  Amazingly enough, the cavalry charge on the lake was shot in Spain on a 100-degree day.  The only scenes filmed in Canada that I'm aware of are some shots of the Urals train.

The entire town of Moscow was built from scratch right outside Madrid (it was either Barajas or Canillas, I forget).  All of the World War I scenes (except the parade of course) and most of the partisan scenes (except the ones already mentioned) were shot in Soria.  I think Varykino was there too, but don't quote me on that.

As a point of interest, filiming the USSR was considered by Lean and the producers, but it didn't pan out because their government wasn't too keen on the idea.

Quote
Also: is the Pasha Antipov character supposed to be based on or inspired by Leon Trotsky?  The bespectacled, fanatical army General dashing across Russia on a train brought Trot to mind for me at least.


Probably on Trotsky somewhat, but I believe that the main model for his character was Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky, the head of the Cheka (Soviet Secret Police).  Dzerzhinsky was an intellectual and something of a poet who, after the outbreak of the Revolution, became a die-hard Bolshevik.  He also invented a type of calculator, the "Felix", which was widely used for decades in Eastern Europe, and a type of camera as well.  He was known as being incorruptibly honest and devoted to the cause.  Unlike Strelnikov, however, he lived and continued to have influence in government until his death in 1926.

Aw hell, I just broke my Sabbatical.  Whatever.  :P

« : November 26, 2006, 06:33:56 AM Groggy »


Saturday nights with Groggy
cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13124


easy come easy go


« #17 : November 26, 2006, 06:27:14 AM »

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059113/locations


"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
Jon0
Guest


« #18 : November 26, 2006, 07:35:42 AM »

Also, I've heard the book was originally banned in the USSR.  How about the film?

Groggy
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11458


This post gets Agnew's stamp of approval!


« #19 : November 26, 2006, 03:06:55 PM »

Also, I've heard the book was originally banned in the USSR.  How about the film?

IIRC the film wasn't shown in Russia until 1994.  When it was released it didn't get a particularly warm reception either.



Saturday nights with Groggy
titoli
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8051



« #20 : August 13, 2008, 04:11:49 PM »

Doctor Zhivago - I saw this in my preteens at the cinema and was bored to death. Tried later but could scarcely get beyond the first  15 minutes. Today I watched it all and got about the same negative reaction, but now I can understand why. But I won't go into it. Great Kinski cameo. 3\10


Groggy
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11458


This post gets Agnew's stamp of approval!


« #21 : August 13, 2008, 04:31:55 PM »

Doctor Zhivago - I saw this in my preteens at the cinema and was bored to death. Tried later but could scarcely get beyond the first  15 minutes. Today I watched it all and got about the same negative reaction, but now I can understand why. But I won't go into it. Great Kinski cameo. 3\10

Zhivago is Lean's weakest epic, and it has a large number of flaws that are very easy to spot. I'm not going to bother trying to change your mind because I imagine I'd agree with a lot of your criticisms. It helps to view the film as an experience - the visuals are amazing, the spectacle is without peer, gorgeous music, and some good performances among the supporting cast, at least. Just ignore the story and characters and you should be okay. :D



Saturday nights with Groggy
titoli
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8051



« #22 : August 13, 2008, 06:27:27 PM »

Zhivago is Lean's weakest epic, and it has a large number of flaws that are very easy to spot. I'm not going to bother trying to change your mind because I imagine I'd agree with a lot of your criticisms. It helps to view the film as an experience - the visuals are amazing, the spectacle is without peer, gorgeous music, and some good performances among the supporting cast, at least. Just ignore the story and characters and you should be okay. :D

Unfortunately I have seen the fullscreen version aired by the italian publiic tv, dubbed and with pale colours. So I wasn't impressed by the visuals either but I don't think that a better release would make much difference as Russia, expecially the city streets, looks a sham (I don't know where the movie was shot). And ignoring story and characters is a big effort to ask to this viewer, expecially as this is a epic movie. Kinski's cameo is the only moment where you perceive something diffferent might have been made out of this meatloaf.   

Only thing I appreciate is to have assessed better the Steiger's character, whom I had always vaguely remembered in the negative.


Groggy
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11458


This post gets Agnew's stamp of approval!


« #23 : August 14, 2008, 05:03:43 AM »

Unfortunately I have seen the fullscreen version aired by the italian publiic tv, dubbed and with pale colours. So I wasn't impressed by the visuals either but I don't think that a better release would make much difference as Russia, expecially the city streets, looks a sham (I don't know where the movie was shot). And ignoring story and characters is a big effort to ask to this viewer, expecially as this is a epic movie. Kinski's cameo is the only moment where you perceive something diffferent might have been made out of this meatloaf.   

Only thing I appreciate is to have assessed better the Steiger's character, whom I had always vaguely remembered in the negative.

Of course it's a sham. Do you really think they would have been able to film in the USSR at the time? Especially considering the book was banned there.

Movie was shot in Spain, with a few additional scenes in Finland and Canada. I think the production design is amazing - especially considering that a lot of the snow-bound scenes were shot in 100 degree weather in the summer.

Kinski's bit part is loads of fun, I'll agree. But it's a romance, what were you expecting? I don't see how you could take issue with Rod Steiger, Tom Courtenay and Alec Guinness. Reasonable people can disagree on Sharif, who admittedly isn't great, but then the role of Zhivago would defeat just about everyone by its nature. And I don't really care for Julie Christie either (nor Ralph Richardson).



Saturday nights with Groggy
dave jenkins
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14064

"One banana, two banana, three banana, four...."


« #24 : August 14, 2008, 10:49:19 AM »

Movie was shot in Spain, with a few additional scenes in Finland and Canada. I think the production design is amazing - especially considering that a lot of the snow-bound scenes were shot in 100 degree weather in the summer.
The St. Petersburg street scenes--the ones shot in a Spanish studio, if I remember rightly--look like utter shite. Everytime Lean leaves locations for studio work he makes a huge mistake (he does this a couple times in Lawrence, too). Another problem: all the actresses have 60s hair. I don't know why the proper coiffuring of actresses was such a problem then, but it was.




That's what you get, Drink, for not appreciating the genius of When You Read This Letter.
Groggy
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11458


This post gets Agnew's stamp of approval!


« #25 : August 14, 2008, 03:15:42 PM »

They were constructed sets, not a studio Jenkins. And it was Moscow, not Petersburg. Read a book.

« : August 14, 2008, 03:24:37 PM Groggy »


Saturday nights with Groggy
titoli
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8051



« #26 : August 14, 2008, 04:12:34 PM »

Of course it's a sham. Do you really think they would have been able to film in the USSR at the time? Especially considering the book was banned there.

Movie was shot in Spain, with a few additional scenes in Finland and Canada. I think the production design is amazing - especially considering that a lot of the snow-bound scenes were shot in 100 degree weather in the summer.

Kinski's bit part is loads of fun, I'll agree. But it's a romance, what were you expecting? I don't see how you could take issue with Rod Steiger, Tom Courtenay and Alec Guinness. Reasonable people can disagree on Sharif, who admittedly isn't great, but then the role of Zhivago would defeat just about everyone by its nature. And I don't really care for Julie Christie either (nor Ralph Richardson).

Of course they couldn't shoot in URSS. That's why the movie shouldn't have been made at all, as an epic movie. Sorry but I do not find anything amazing in the production design: nothing. And I think Sharif does a very good job, better than Courtenay (who is not helped by the character, who is simply absurd). Guinness playing young man is irritating. Steiger comes off better than the rest: he has the best charachter to play, though . But what I do not like it is not the coiffure but the fact that there is not a single russian looking character in the entire movie. This is a epic of no epic proportions because everything is small. The front scenes are embarassing, to put it mildly: in italian b productions they would have come off better. Much better the mutiny scene, but is it necessary for the plot? I think the movie would have had better results if it had stuck to Zhivago-Lara love story, leaving out all those incidents which slow down the movie, like the city attack of the mounted police, the war and mutiny scenes, the partisan war, the meeting Sharif-Courtenay. I could go on and on.


Groggy
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11458


This post gets Agnew's stamp of approval!


« #27 : August 14, 2008, 04:22:11 PM »

Quote
That's why the movie shouldn't have been made at all, as an epic movie.


Rather specious logic here, I think.

Quote
And I think Sharif does a very good job, better than Courtenay (who is not helped by the character, who is simply absurd).

Please elaborate.

Quote
Guinness playing young man is irritating.

That was one scene, and in any case I found it amusing rather than irritating, myself.

Quote
This is a epic of no epic proportions because everything is small. The front scenes are embarassing, to put it mildly: in italian b productions they would have come off better.

I don't necessarily disagree with the second part of your statement, but it's not the point of the story. Lean always tried not to spend a whole lot of time on historical stuff, when there's a romance and characters to deal with.

Quote
Much better the mutiny scene, but is it necessary for the plot?


That's definitely the best scene of the movie, but it is important if for no other reason than it allows Lara and Zhivago to meet one another. It's also an homage by Lean to his favorite film, King Vidor's "The Big Parade".

Quote
think the movie would have had better results if it had stuck to Zhivago-Lara love story, leaving out all those incidents which slow down the movie, like the city attack of the mounted police, the war and mutiny scenes, the partisan war, the meeting Sharif-Courtenay. I could go on and on.


If they left out the historical stuff, it wouldn't be Doctor Zhivago. You could argue that Lean and Bolt did an awkward job of adapting it (which, again, is the nature of the beast: I've heard Zhivago described as "a 600 page poem", and I can't really disagree) but it's an essential part of the novel and its story.

As flawed as Zhivago is, I can't imagine any director or writer doing a better job translating it into a 3-and-a-half-hour film. Just by its nature, it's a futile exercise, and Lean and Bolt get credit for at least making something worth watching, if rather flawed and imperfect, out of it. I haven't seen either of the miniseries adaptations (although I'm leery of anything with Keira Knightley, personally) but that format, at least, seems the better way to adapt it.

« : August 14, 2008, 04:23:49 PM Groggy »


Saturday nights with Groggy
titoli
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8051



« #28 : August 14, 2008, 05:48:31 PM »


Quote
Rather specious logic here, I think.

If you can't do a thing properly better not to do it. There are so many other ones to do.


Quote
Please elaborate.

There is nothing to elaborate. Courtenay's character is less than one-dimensional, irrealistic (one wonders why he marries Lara at all). 

Quote
That was one scene, and in any case I found it amusing rather than irritating, myself.

A matter of tastes.

Quote
I don't necessarily disagree with the second part of your statement, but it's not the point of the story. Lean always tried not to spend a whole lot of time on historical stuff, when there's a romance and characters to deal with.

Still that historical part is of no use and most of it easily dispensed with by verbal explanations. Actually, the less about that mess that is a revolution, the better, if your aim is making a romantic film.

Quote
That's definitely the best scene of the movie, but it is important if for no other reason than it allows Lara and Zhivago to meet one another. It's also an homage by Lean to his favorite film, King Vidor's "The Big Parade".

As above.

Quote
If they left out the historical stuff, it wouldn't be Doctor Zhivago.

Yes, but it would be a better movie.




dave jenkins
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14064

"One banana, two banana, three banana, four...."


« #29 : August 14, 2008, 10:04:09 PM »

Titoli, when you watch Zhivago, is it with an Italian dub?

Oh, and, a much better film on a similar topic is Quiet Flows the Don (1957), which runs about 6 hours IIRC. Naturally, the Russians do movies about Russia  better. Too bad its so hard to find in a good edition on HV (the Kino disc is atrocious).



That's what you get, Drink, for not appreciating the genius of When You Read This Letter.
: 1 [2] 3 4  
« previous next »
:  



Visit FISTFUL-OF-LEONE.COM

SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
0.059144