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Author Topic: Frank and Cheyenne  (Read 4098 times)
Mitsuhirato
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« on: August 09, 2010, 08:30:51 AM »

Don't know if it was discussed already earlier. There is one thing which I can't figure out and I would appreciate any other thoughts. As far as I remember Frank's plan was put the blame for the McBain massacre on Cheyenne. So far so good. But I think Frank must have to anticipate that Cheyenne would reveal the true circumstances. Sooner or later his action would have been a potential thread to him with having Cheyenne and his men on his back.

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El_Chuncho
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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2010, 05:02:20 PM »

Maybe. But Frank doesn't scare easily!
By pinning the blame on Cheyenne, a known outlaw, he's ensuring that the Law, posses, bounty killers etc all go for Cheyenne and his crew.
And we find out that the plan works, as Cheyenne tells Jill that a "pack o' turds" had been chasing him and his men the whole damn night.
Not only that but Frank also has the backing of Morton, a man of wealth, power and influence, the new face of the West.
Frank is trying to adjust to the new West as personified by Morton....As Harmonica tells him "Frank, you're learning new methods."
Even if Cheyenne and his men did get back to him, Frank's got his own crew and obviously so does Morton (lots of Cheyenne's men die breaking him out of the train)

« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 05:09:01 PM by El_Chuncho » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2010, 05:18:21 PM »

I also assume that Frank figured Cheyenne could be taken care of, or at least tied down by, the local authorities who are on Morton's payroll, or that he could complete the conquest of the McBain ranch and then fight Cheyenne at his leisure.

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SeanSeanSean
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« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2010, 02:03:15 PM »

It has just occured to me:
Frank and Cheyenne aren't in any scenes together.

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« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2010, 02:10:01 PM »

They're in one scene together, when Cheyenne is hiding under Morton's train and gets spotted by Wobbles. But you're right, they don't interact.

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« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2010, 12:38:24 PM »

I always found that interesting the way the two never interact nor do they ever speak of the other in any way. I find this particularly interesting as I've always considered the two characters to be counterpoints; Cheyenne being the most likable and human character in the movie, almost comedic, and Frank being the most vicious.


I did find this photo on the net before which may suggest that the two really did share a scene together afterall but it wound up on the cutting room floor. http://www.starframers.com/servlet/the-188800/Once-Upon-A-Time/Detail

I think most would agree that the photo looks too staged to be just a publicity photo. The picture has sparked some discussion here before as we can assume this scene was suppose to take place just after Harmonica turns Cheyenne over to the Sheriff and just before the bit of dialogue "hey wait a minute, the jail's that way!" But as other members have told me, there is no scene in the original script that matches this photo. So the mystery behind it continues on.

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« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2010, 02:37:27 PM »

Nice find Peacemaker. Afro

It's possible that such a bit wasn't in the script and could have been ad-libbed by Leone. It needn't have been an exchange of dialogue - maybe there was a quick scene of Cheyenne and the Sheriff crossing paths with Frank in the street. If so, Leone may have cut that bit out for reasons of mood - Frank's entrance to the bar with Harmonica is rather foreboding and a comic moment like that may have been out of place or ruined the suspense.

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El_Chuncho
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« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2010, 06:55:39 PM »

An interesting picture that!
I've seen similar ones for other Leone films which, like this one, look too staged to be mere production/publicity stills.
I'll have a look for 'em now, but it probably belongs halfway on the FAFDM thread:
its got Manco sat down pouring a drink for a senorita in Indio's hideout. I seem to remember other shots or maybe just one of a couple of other lasses with some  of Indio's men, again, in the hideout
It definitely looks as if its part of a scene but quite probably it was cut for the same reason as the other love scene with the Hotelier's wench (if indeed, it was ever filmed in the first place!)
I'll have a look later but I'm on GMT here hombres, and its time for me to crash out.

« Last Edit: September 04, 2010, 08:00:13 PM by El_Chuncho » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2010, 07:03:17 PM »

here's an odd one I just found to be going on with....Klaus giving the old deadeye!

http://media.photobucket.com/image/for%20a%20few%20dollars%20more/theclinteastwoodarchive/FEWkinskipresspose.jpg?o=38

« Last Edit: September 05, 2010, 05:13:16 AM by El_Chuncho » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2010, 05:37:06 AM »

here it is, scroll down to the FAFDM section.

http://spaghettiwesterns.1g.fi/pics.htm

quite possibly nothing, but makes you wonder.....

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« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2010, 07:09:15 AM »

yea it definitely does, it would be nice to know more details.

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« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2010, 07:18:51 AM »

I wondered at first if they were perhaps makeup artists or wardrobe dept. but why would they be in costume themselves??!
The Groggy and Clint shot looks a bit like they're larking about, but Volonte looks like he's definitely in character.
I particularly like the one of GMV and Kinski having a smoke...probably just between scenes, but again, WHO KNOWS?? maybe thats how Indio recruited Wild into the gang: he bummed him a smoke! Grin

« Last Edit: September 05, 2010, 07:20:01 AM by El_Chuncho » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2010, 08:54:20 AM »

I always found that interesting the way the two never interact nor do they ever speak of the other in any way. I find this particularly interesting as I've always considered the two characters to be counterpoints; Cheyenne being the most likable and human character in the movie, almost comedic, and Frank being the most vicious.


I did find this photo on the net before which may suggest that the two really did share a scene together afterall but it wound up on the cutting room floor. http://www.starframers.com/servlet/the-188800/Once-Upon-A-Time/Detail

I think most would agree that the photo looks too staged to be just a publicity photo. The picture has sparked some discussion here before as we can assume this scene was suppose to take place just after Harmonica turns Cheyenne over to the Sheriff and just before the bit of dialogue "hey wait a minute, the jail's that way!" But as other members have told me, there is no scene in the original script that matches this photo. So the mystery behind it continues on.
Hi Peace.
This is interesting. I know of two scenes cut by Leone: Harmonica's  beating and the babershop scene with Frank. I'd bet that this scene comes after the barbershop and before the meeting in the saloon. Cheyenne on his way out and Frank on his way in.
I wonder if any of this lost footage will ever be restored?
Note that there is a barbershop scene with Fonda in My name is Nobody.

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« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2010, 11:44:15 PM »

Hi Peace.
This is interesting. I know of two scenes cut by Leone: Harmonica's  beating and the babershop scene with Frank. I'd bet that this scene comes after the barbershop and before the meeting in the saloon. Cheyenne on his way out and Frank on his way in.
I wonder if any of this lost footage will ever be restored?
Note that there is a barbershop scene with Fonda in My name is Nobody.


yeah, that's why Frank looks particularly cleaned-up in that scene in the saloon when he tries buying the farm back from Harmonica for $5,001... cuz there was a previous scene with Frank in a barbershop getting a shave, that was later cut (pun alert!)

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