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Author Topic: The Damn Trains!  (Read 45828 times)
cigar joe
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« on: May 20, 2003, 10:15:01 PM »

I'm assuming all have noticed the broad gauge track in Leone's westerns, standard english/american gauge is 4 feet 8 inches, most american made westerns showed standard gauge trains though some narrow gauge lines existed out west also (Denver & Rio Grande).

Interestingly enough in the american south at the time of the Civil War the gauge was 5 feet, some other  railroads even went p to 6 feet (Albany & Susquehanna). So actually Leone got it pretty close.

Then there are the strange looking trains, something looks not quite right, not quite what you are used to seeing.

Most of us in the USA expect to see the type of locomotive refferd  to as an "American" type with pointy cowcatcher, baloon stack, large headlamp all with Victorian garnish. These locomotives are classed thusly as 4-4-0 ( a 4 wheel truck & four driving wheels) other types the 2-6-0 "Mogul" and the 2-8-0 "Consolidation" 0-4-0's and 0-6-0's were used as switchers, there were also "tank" engines that carried their water supply on the engine rather than in the tender.

In Leone's westerns the spanish locomotives were given makeovers to resemble these american types, and they do so quite convincingly. They look almost right but in a strange foreign way which adds to the magic that surrounds these movies.

But if one were to look at old time locomotive photos of the 1850's and 60's you find that the numerous locomotive works in the south and north built an assortment of wierd looking motive power that actually and accidentily resembles some of the movies engines.  

The two wheel trucks may or may not still have been used on the rolling stock. This is what most viewers notice first as something that is not right. However the early trains of the 1830's had only 2 wheel trucks on the rolling stock and the switch over to 4 wheel trucks may have been gradual. The heavy weight passenger "Pullmans" had 6 wheel trucks.

The other noticeable difference is the train whistle. Most american audiences expect a deeper throatier whistle that the high pitched shriek.

Again, remember our collective memories may all be colored by Movies and TV since the advent of sound, and the remaining engines that survived to be in the movies. Its entierly possible that whistles may have varied with the manufacturer, every whistle has its own tune, so to speak!

Leone was pushing the envelope with his GBU trains. There were no railroads in New Mexico at the time of the Civil War. Texas had about 9 but none very close to the New Mexico Civil War action.

A few of the names of the Texas RR's: Since we don't know for sure pick your favorite for the one Leone was portraying.

Buffalo Bayou, Brazos & Colorado RR
Galveston & Red River RR
San Antonio & Texas RR
Texas & New Orleans RR
Memphis, El Paso & Pacific RR
Eastern Texas RR
Indianola RR
Texas & Pacific RR




« Last Edit: May 21, 2003, 08:47:49 PM by cigar joe » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2004, 07:22:14 PM »

The follow up pics from "A Locomotive Engineer's Album" by George B. Addill:


This first image below is a classic "American" Style 440 or (ooOO wheel arrangement) locomotive this type is the one usually filmed this is probably a factor from the sheer numbers manufactured. Note the "baloon" smokestack.





Below is a "Mogul" Style 260 (oOOO wheel arangement) locomotive another classic again sheer numbers insure survival of some examples to the present day. This has a straight stack with a cinder catcher at the top.



Next up an American with a curved stack that incorporated a pipe to direct cinders between the rails. It looks like a pipe stem.

 

Leone western looking locomotive a 060 (OOO wheel arrangement) This engine has angled cylinders.




The Consolidation Type 280 (oOOOO) shown below was usually employed of freight drags note the straight stack.




Below are two styles of saddle tankers a 242 (oOOo) with cow catchers at both ends and a 240 (oOO)






Next up is an 1893 242 (oOOo) "Mother Hubbard" or "Camelback" locomotive its cab was in the middle of the engine,  engineer on one side fireman on the other they communicated through a speaking tube.



South of the border down Mexico way here is a pic of a Scottish built 440 (ooOO) locomotive running on the Mexican railway, this one really has a European look, reminded me on the Prussian loco used in "A Bullet for the General".







« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 05:03:54 PM by cigar joe » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2004, 09:55:03 AM »

I'm assuming all have noticed the broad gauge track in Leone's westerns

Can't say I have Joe, but I'll take your word for it!

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« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2004, 12:54:00 AM »

I' m amazed! And I too will take your word for all this stuff

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KERMIT
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« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2004, 01:02:25 AM »

cj do you have the stats telling the difference between spainish RR tracks and the american ones ? i've forgoten where on the board this valuable info is.
spainish RR tracks were much wider than american tracks, ect.  

http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/003/011gsqfq.asp

« Last Edit: September 29, 2004, 01:12:14 AM by KERMIT » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2004, 02:12:53 PM »

They had six feet between the rails americam standard gauge is 4'8".

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« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2004, 11:20:04 AM »

Very cool CJ.  You forget what an amazing invention the railroad was - these machines look dated now, but imagine how futuristic they looked back in that day.  

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« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2004, 06:30:49 PM »



Another pic from "A locomotive Engineer's Album" by George B Adbill.

This is a good illustration of Standard & Broad Gauge. This is the broad gauge Erie RR 1879. A broad gauge work train of empty gravel cars is paused on a temporary siding waiting to be backed into the track at the far right to be loaded by a steam shovel. To the left is a double track main line. This particular double track section was also used by the standard gauge Lehigh Valley RR, so an extra rail was laid between the Erie tracks to accomodate the Lehigh Valley trains both used the left side rail of both tracks.

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« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2005, 09:03:02 PM »

You can see the same three rail track system in Companero's  Grin.

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« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2005, 09:07:39 PM »

A link to the locomotives available to Carlo Simi.

http://www.locomotoravapor.com/

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KERMIT
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« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2005, 06:45:25 PM »

http://www.locomotoravapor.com/fotosupload/castlamancha/e95.jpg   

great site joe. thanks.  Grin

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« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2005, 05:57:14 PM »

A link to the locomotives available to Carlo Simi.

http://www.locomotoravapor.com/

CJ remind me again who Carlo Simi is Huh Huh Huh

Ice

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« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2005, 06:08:28 PM »

Carlo Simi, set & costume designer on a lot of the SW's.

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« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2005, 11:19:56 AM »


Carlo Simi had a cameo in Few Dollars more as the El Paso bank manager.

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« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2005, 03:27:26 PM »

Carlo Simi had a cameo in Few Dollars more as the El Paso bank manager.

Thanks CJ and Ramon...I never new that. These little snippits of information just makes the appeal of the trilogy that little more interesting Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley

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