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Author Topic: lack of villain.  (Read 10384 times)
The Firecracker
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« on: April 15, 2006, 06:47:50 PM »

Many complain about this film not having a "strong villan" role. People say it is one of the aspects that hurt the film. personally I am glad they didnt have a  maniacal villan dogging Juan and John's tracks. If that were the case this would be a mindless action romp (ala Companeros), not that it would be a bad thing....but with no villian around it allows the viewer to have time to get to know the two main charcaters first and how their relationship grow. true that Ruiz could be considered the main villain, but he has very little screen time and has no dialogue(except for two or three lines). hardly a real antagonist.
Then there is the governer, another petty villain that is basically used as canon fodder.

then there is the most interesting of all the villans in the film...doctor Villega. He isnt in a sense a villan or a nasty person at heart. But he did betray a large amount of people to save his own skin and does conduct the plans to fight against the mexican government without actually fighting himself.

would any of you consider villega a villan? I sure do.

« Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 12:05:19 AM by The Firecracker » Logged



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Tim
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« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2006, 11:28:37 PM »

  Villega is a villain, but not in the typical sense like Indio or Loco.  He's a villain, but only because he was caught and tortured so he would give up the information.

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J B
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« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2006, 07:59:40 PM »

When I think of the word "villain" I think of the word "evil".  Villega is certaintly not a villain.  The only reason why he betrayed his friends was because he was tortured, and he felt so bad about it that he let himself die in a horrible train collision.  Villain?  I don't think so.

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« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2006, 09:56:05 PM »

With good points already made, maybe there are really not any villains in this movie.  I never thought about it like this before.  At first thought, it would have been Ruiz, but he was just fulfilling his part.
They ALL were caught up in the times.  They each did what they thought was needed to be done to get what they wanted or just to survive.
As Sean says "With Revolultion, there is confusion".
Yes, there were evil acts, Ruiz's brutality, Villega's betrayal, oppresive dictatorship (which may be the villain), and even Sean's massacre of the government troops at the bridge.  Talk about one of the most cold hearted set ups in film, that was certainly one of them.
I haven't looked at it like this before, but this film gets me on a more emotional level than OUATITW, which is my favorite.  I guess I look at DYS as being more real somehow.  People who are caught up in situations that just seem to keep spiraling out of control and they just act accordingly.

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« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2006, 07:52:01 AM »

would any of you consider villega a villan? I sure do.
No it wasn't as if he was some double agent he understandably betrayed his allies under torture!

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The Firecracker
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« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2006, 09:29:31 AM »

No it wasn't as if he was some double agent he understandably betrayed his allies under torture!


yes but the way he acted about it later was rather cruel and cowardly. Which funny enough would probably be the same way any of us would act?

are we bad people?

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« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2006, 01:11:44 PM »

Although there is no Dick Dasterdley in the movie I always look at it like they are all Villans in there own right. Sean an on the run IRA man wanted by the British.
Juan a bandit with a criminal family, Vega although a traitor is not a Villan he at heart is a coward looking for the easy way for himself he would have talked without the torture.
All the good guys in Leones movies cannot be classed as the pure cowboys of John Wayne breed all have faults all are criminal when it suits and all are killers when it comes to the dollars

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cigar joe
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« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2006, 05:07:35 PM »

Maybe the "Revolution" is the villian, no?

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« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2006, 05:47:46 PM »

Ruiz is the villain. The amount of screen time the guy gets has nothing to do with it. Ruiz is depicted as a heartless machine (Morricone has just the right music for him). The fact that there are tons of things going on in the film doesn't change the fact that at the end you have a basic conflict with an antagonist being resolved.

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« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2006, 08:33:42 PM »

Ruiz is the villain. The amount of screen time the guy gets has nothing to do with it. Ruiz is depicted as a heartless machine (Morricone has just the right music for him). The fact that there are tons of things going on in the film doesn't change the fact that at the end you have a basic conflict with an antagonist being resolved.


Ruiz(or Reza) is just doing his job. I cannot place the guy down as a pure villan.

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The Firecracker
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« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2006, 08:35:01 PM »

Maybe the "Revolution" is the villian, no?

CJ you hit it on the money! The cynical view in the movie towards the revolution should be a hint to all of us.

I am willing to accept that the "revolution" is the villan.

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« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2007, 11:27:04 PM »

The Revolution is indeed the villain. That's a far more dangerous villain than any of the previous so called Leone "villains." Thousands of innocent people died because of the Revolution. There was a villain indeed.

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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2007, 08:17:52 AM »

The Revolution is indeed the villain. That's a far more dangerous villain than any of the previous so called Leone "villains." Thousands of innocent people died because of the Revolution. There was a villain indeed.
Agreed! Afro

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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2007, 04:55:39 PM »

This "Revolution is The Villan" idea also is a quote from one of Leone's favorite Chaplin films, Monsieur Verdoux, at the end Verdoux condemed to death as a serial killer in his trial states basically that States ie. political systems, are far worse mass killers than him.

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« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2007, 06:16:21 PM »

This "Revolution is The Villan" idea also is a quote from one of Leone's favorite Chaplin films, Monsieur Verdoux, at the end Verdoux condemed to death as a serial killer in his trial states basically that States ie. political systems, are far worse mass killers than him.

Interesting insight here cigar. Thanks for posting this. I did not know Leone was a fan of Monsieur Verdoux. Interesting.

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