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Author Topic: kubrick disillusions  (Read 23863 times)
The Firecracker
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« on: April 15, 2006, 09:10:49 PM »

I am well aware that this site is full of young and hopefully up and coming filmmakers. As such I am also aware that these artist praise the director Stanley Kubrick like there is no tomorrow.
I for one cannot care much for Kubrick. I just fail to see the "genius" in his work. His films are always hits or misses for me(mostly misses).

here is what I think of his filmography(havent seen all of them).

*The Hits*
Barry Lyndon
The Shining
2001 space odyssey
Paths of Glory

*The misses*
Clockwork Orange
Full metal jacket
Spartacus(though he didnt have full control of the film...I am putting it down anyway!)
Lolita
Dr. Strangelove

*The undecided*
Eyes Wide Shut(undecided because I have not seen all of it, but from what I have seen (God help me) it could be his best. yes I said it!


do you agree, disagree or agree to disagree? Write what you want.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2007, 06:03:34 PM by The Firecracker » Logged



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« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2006, 11:32:35 PM »

Dr. Strangelove is a classic, maybe you had to be there during the early 50's-60's, it managed to put a funny spin on the insanity. I remember doing air raid drills in school where we would hide under our desks, like that was going to save us. lol.

The Shinning, Paths of Glory, and Barry Lyndon are great also, and Clockwork Orange with its wierd bleak future was very topical at the time.

Space Odessey is a bit slow for me,  Lolita is a bit tedious, Full Metal Jacket is ok, Spartacus' best moment is the end with the multiple crucifictions stretching to ininity (that scene is similar for me to the first view of Sad Hill a bit chilling)

Eyes Wide Shut I'm also undecided.

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« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2006, 11:42:47 PM »

  For me, Full Metal Jacket and Spartacus are in his "hit" group.  Sure, FMJ tails off a bit after the training sequence, but it's still a powerful movie.

  As for Spartacus, I love those 1960s big epic movies with huge casts.  Granted, Kubrick was still figuring things out, but I love this one, and Douglas is great as the slave leader.

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The Firecracker
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« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2006, 11:46:12 PM »

"Full metal jacket" works for the first hour in the Boot camp. Then it becomes average in its vietname sequence.

"Spartacus" is much to slow, although I do enjoy the last battle with the rolling hay on fire.

Lolita is tedious.


Space Odyssey Is my least fav of the "hits". slow yes...but I believe it was some what intentional. kubrick wanted to give us the feeling of what space travel would be like...it would be slllllllllllllllllllllooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwww. At least that is the excuse I give to defend the film. I quite enjoy the first 30 minutes of the film with the apes. though it amazes me how many didnt walk out of the theatre the firstbten minutes...(then again I believe they did. It was a dud its initial release was it not?)


Clockwork Orange as I stated elsewhere is a over hyped and overblown film. By the time it got to me...I didnt care much for it. In fact I was downright dissappointed. the soundtrack is top notch though!

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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2006, 09:59:08 AM »

Clockwork Orange, like alot of other cult films (e.g.Wicker Man )definately grows on you the more times you see it!
I saw some of Strangelove as a kid so it went over my head so i really need to have a look at this!
Space Odyssey is tedius but Spaticus for the most part is great-i love the way Pythons Life Of Brian stole the "i'm Spartacus" scene.
The Shining is an absolute hit-the camera shot of the kid going round and round in the wheelchair is sublime-who did this trick first-The Omen or The Shining?
Full Metal Jacket is quite powerful but i get bored of all these Platoon type anti-war films!

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« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2006, 07:19:54 PM »

I am well aware that this site is full of young and
I for one cannot care much for Kubrick. I just fail to see the "genius" in his work. His films are always hits or misses for me(mostly misses).

I'm with you... I mean I think he's one of the best directors around, but he's not god, as many seem to believe... I also flatout dislike many of his movies... he's in the same class as spielberg and lumet as a hit-and-miss director who is completely random(there are no trends) in whether he hits or misses for me... I think he's the best of the three and I see genius is a lot of his stuff, but most of it I don't see any genius at all, in fact I despise some of it.

LOVE
-the shining
-dr strangelove
-paths of glory

OVERRATED CRAP
-clockwork orange
-full metal jacket
-spartacus
-2001

IN THE MIDDLE
-eyes wide shut(horribly underrated but still not in love with it)
-lolita(on the overrated side, but not horrible)
-barry lyndon(same as eyes)

If i had to rank them...
-the shining
-dr strangelove
-paths of glory
-eyes wide shut
-barry lyndon
-lolita
-2001
-full metal jacket
-spartacus
-clockwork orange

I think he's a genius simply for the shining and dr strangelove, but I agree film-buffs give him far too much credit, he doesn't have the near flawless records that other directors I would rank ahead of him have, in my eyes anyway, people I think were nearly flawless many believe are incredibly flawed but thats another topic.

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The Firecracker
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« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2006, 09:30:23 PM »

-who did this trick first-The Omen or The Shining?



The shining came out in 1980. when was the Omen released? 1979 I believe...it came out just after the excorcist craze.

I'll have to check Imdb.


The Shining is my fav kubrick film.
A flawless performance  by nicholson!(though sometimes a bit over the top)

Shelly Duvall is annoying as hell. But you would understand why Jack wants to kill her so badly. Grin

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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2006, 03:42:56 AM »

Actually i'mcertain the Omen came out alot earlier  than 1979 so i guess Shining borrowed the pushchair scene!I also think that the Omen is the better and more scarier(the scariest in fact!)movie than The Shining.

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« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2006, 10:37:29 AM »

 ''I like Stanley Kubrick. I think his work is great and powerful. With Cimino, Borman and Ferreri he defended my films when the critics were unfair.''

SERGIO LEONE.

Quoted from Conversation avec Sergio Leone, Noel SIMSOLO.

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« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2006, 11:11:42 AM »

Quote
Clockwork Orange
Full metal jacket
Spartacus(though he didnt have full control of the film...I am putting it down anyway!)
Lolita
Dr. Strangelove

Misses  Huh   Smiley

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« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2006, 11:29:51 AM »

''I like Stanley Kubrick. I think his work is great and powerful. With Cimino, Borman and Ferreri he defended my films when the critics were unfair.''

SERGIO LEONE.

Quoted from Conversation avec Sergio Leone, Noel SIMSOLO.

I always knew that Leone and Kubrick admired each other. I love Kubrick's work and I can't understand why so little members like Full Metal Jacket? That was one of his best!

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« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2006, 12:17:38 PM »

Spartacus doesn't count as a Kubrick picture: SK himself disowned it (see Ciment).

The unquestionably great SK films are Strangelove and Barry Lyndon. Strangelove is a film of its time yet for all time. To see this all you have to do is compare it with Fail Safe, a hopelessly dated picture. Strangelove is also one of the few examples of successful satire in American cinema. There are many good spoofs, parodies, comedies, etc. but very few good satires (another successful example is Clockwork Orange). The acid test: all characters in a satire are equally ridiculous.

Barry Lyndon is a masterpiece in part because it opens a dialogue with the source novel on which it is based. It comments on that work at the same time it adapts it. Compare the novel with the movie: the events described are the same, but the different perspectives cause us to interpret those events differently. Taken together, we get a fuller idea of Barry than we would if we had only one work on which to base our understanding of his character.  So SK remains true to Thackeray while creating something that is entirely SK's own; an amazing feat.

2001 is a beautiful film about a stupid idea. Ditto The Shining. Full Metal Jacket suffers from silly plot points, but contains many vivid scenes. Clockwork Orange is very funny. The scenes in Lolita with Peter Sellers work well. The Killing is a noir masterpiece. Eyes Wide Shut is unwatchable.

Kubrick: he had his good days, and his bad days.

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« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2006, 12:32:56 PM »

Stanley Kubrick is one of my favorite directors.  I esspecially like The Shining and Barry Lyndon.  You've gotta admire him for almost never repeating himself when it comes to genre.  In my opinion he's directed one of the great horror films (The Shining), one of the great sci fi films (2001), and one of the great comedies (Dr. Strangelove).

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« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2006, 12:33:58 PM »

The Shining is an absolute hit-the camera shot of the kid going round and round in the wheelchair is sublime-who did this trick first-The Omen or The Shining?

Which scene do you mean, Banjo, do you mean the shots of Danny on his trike? THE SHINING was the first feature film ever to use a Steadicam, if that's what you mean. It's inventor, Garrett Brown was also operator on the movie. This is definatly a film I have a lot of time for. It features ground breaking filming techniques, and excellent performances through out, and has a facinating sub-text about the decimation of the Native American tribes. The film is not without its faults however. Kubrick's legendary attention to detail missed out the fact that when it's cold you can see people's breath, something he neglected in the maze scene (which was a giant indoor set). I also find Nicholson's performance alarmingly pitched in places, but this is entierly Kubrick's fault, pushing Jack to do fifty or sixty takes, to achieve an often comedic and hammy interpretation of the role.

A CLOCKWORK ORANGE has superb production design and a great central performance from McDowell, though Aubrey Morris acts him off the screen in his brief appearences as his social worker, P. R. Deltoid. This time the comedic touches are pitched correctly, but the film is very badly constructed. On Alex's release from prison the whole film falls apart very badly, and it's ending is just tedious, a lengthy conversation between McDowell and Anthony Sharp.

SPARTICUS also suffers from a horrendously verbose script, probabaly Kubrick's most boring film, next to EYES WIDE SHUT, a film so awful I've never been able to sit through it. I'll have another go someday, but even the site of Ms. Kidman's naked arse failed to rouse any interest from me.

FULL METAL JACKED is very much a film of two halves, both over schematic. The first half is the best, and would be an interesting short all on it's own. The second half is just dreadful rubbish. By the time he made it APOCALYPSE NOW and THE DEERHUNTER had pertty much said it all about the Vietnam war. Kubrick was merely rehashing old images, and his decision to shoot the film in England was just disasterous. At no point is the film in the least bit convincing. That this has come from a man who made two of the greatest war films ever made just shows how creativly tired Kubrick was by this time.

In stark contrast, PATHS OF GLORY is faultless film making, and DR. STRAGELOVE is probabaly the Kubrick film I watch the most. Hilarious, powerful and deeply frightning all at once, with audacious cinematography, production design and performances by all concerned.

BARRY LYNDON is a beautiful looking film, again with outstanding cinematography and production design. It's script is slightly schematic, but not as abysmaly as FULL METAL... But this can never hide the fact that Ryan O' Neal is a bloody disaster in the role. He is not a bad performer, he is just simply miss-cast. Again, Kubrick's own fault.

I love LOLITA personally. Sellers improvised rants as Quilty are pure screen gold, possibly even better that anything he does in STRANGELOVE, and James Mason gave the performance of his brilliant career. Overlong, perhaps, "tedious" never.

THE KILLING is a fantastic film too, and remains an influential work even today (see RESEVOIR DOGS). I'll have to give it a play again soon. His earlier noir, KILLER'S KISS is an interesting little film too, if rather self conciously "arty" in places. Which leaves us with 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY. Again, a film flawed in some places, however, it still remains a ground breaking and monumental achievment full of unforgettable moments.

So Stan, yes, he's only human after all.




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The Firecracker
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« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2006, 01:14:20 PM »



FULL METAL JACKED is very much a film of two halves, both over schematic. The first half is the best, and would be an interesting short all on it's own. The second half is just dreadful rubbish. By the time he made it APOCALYPSE NOW and THE DEERHUNTER had pertty much said it all about the Vietnam war. Kubrick was merely rehashing old images, and his decision to shoot the film in England was just disasterous. At no point is the film in the least bit convincing. That this has come from a man who made two of the greatest war films ever made just shows how creativly tired Kubrick was by this time.






agreed. The film feels so artificial when they get to vietnam.



Banjo: your right, "The Omen" was made in 1976.
However I dont agree with that film being better than "The Shining".

As for "eyes wide shut"...I really need to see it all. perhaps I will buy it. From what I have seen(first 30 minutes) it looks excellent.

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