Sergio Leone Web Board
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
December 11, 2017, 06:34:00 AM
Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
News:


+  Sergio Leone Web Board
|-+  Films of Sergio Leone
| |-+  Duck, You Sucker (Moderators: cigar joe, moviesceleton, Dust Devil)
| | |-+  IRA or IRB historical mismatch
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: IRA or IRB historical mismatch  (Read 6075 times)
Don_Wiley_Quixote
Road Apple
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10


View Profile
« on: April 19, 2006, 10:58:45 PM »

I read some where on this board that someone was really dissapointed to find out that the IRA was formed sometime after Seans arrival in Mexico. So the flag pulled from his motorcycle could never have existed.

Could this be due to the era this film was made i.e. early seventies and the re-surgence of the IRA in N. Ireland. Hence global recognition.

Wouldn't it have been better to use an IRB flag (or none at all) which was formed much earlier which had a dynamite campaign on  the British mainland in the 1880s. Would this make Sean too old for the Mexican revolution  Huh

Indeed was there  a concerted Irish rebel campaign before the Easter uprising of 1916?


Logged
The Firecracker
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9672


Rub me the wrong way, and I'll go off in your face


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2006, 11:05:15 PM »

The inaccurancy is irrelevant. leone was not known for his historical accuracy. Besides, its a movie.


The IRA being around during that time was a hommage to John Ford's "The Informent".

Logged



The Official COMIN' AT YA! re-release site
http://cominatyanoir3d.com/
Don_Wiley_Quixote
Road Apple
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2006, 11:16:10 PM »

Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking this movie.

It's one of the greatest ever.

All great works of art have flaws.

Hey if  i was going to be pedantic I'd mention the weaponry used.

It'd just be interesting if the general historical sweep was in order.

Logged
The Firecracker
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9672


Rub me the wrong way, and I'll go off in your face


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2006, 11:18:15 PM »

Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking this movie.



I am aware, sorry if I sounded a bit angry Smiley
that wasnt the case.

anyway...what are you asking? I am not quite sure what you are trying to say?

Logged



The Official COMIN' AT YA! re-release site
http://cominatyanoir3d.com/
Don_Wiley_Quixote
Road Apple
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2006, 11:49:34 PM »

I suppose what I'm asking is was there some form of rebellion in Ireland before the Mexican revolution where Mallory could have gained his expertise in dynamiting etc. Wink

Logged
The Firecracker
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9672


Rub me the wrong way, and I'll go off in your face


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2006, 11:51:25 PM »

I suppose what I'm asking is was there some form of rebellion in Ireland before the Mexican revolution where Mallory could have gained his expertise in dynamiting etc. Wink


yes of course. It is made quiet clear in the film that their was a revolution in Ireland against the British Government.

Logged



The Official COMIN' AT YA! re-release site
http://cominatyanoir3d.com/
Banjo
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4428


Don't you like music with your supper?


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2006, 08:04:16 AM »

Well he was obviously addicted(by personal tragedies i guess) to any and all revolutions!

Logged
Juan Miranda
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 842


Badges?!?


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2006, 08:40:26 PM »

Before the Easter Rising (the anniversary of which is in 3 days time) there was no "revolution" in Ireland. Leone got it wrong historically, or just moved the timeline for dramatic effect. The fact that Leone talked about the "young men" of the Irish rebellion possibly taking part in the Mexican one, when in fact any kind of a "wee fart of a revolution" was 6 years away yet in Dublin, leads me to think that Sergio didn't know what he was talking about. Not that it really matters or detracts from the film.

Certainly at the time the movie was made there were a string of terrorist atrocities through out Europe (and the middle East), and many of Leone's friend's noted a general political cynicism had crept into his conversation by this point. Most people in the world who read newspapers by then (or had watched a few John Ford films) knew who the IRA were.

As for where Coburn had aquired his dynamite skills from, I suggested in another thread that they were not learned through an armed conflict, but in fact from University. He is clearly a member of the wealthy classes (the car, the clothes, the county mansion/even if they are not his and they are Warbeck's, he's a man of means with rich friends). He has probabaly studied mining (the job he has at the start of the film) or  chemistry.

By 1910 there was no other way Coburn could have learned his trade "historically". It was only in 1911 that the IRB became an organised and militant force, and even then only in Ulster, and not in the South, where Leone places Coburn. It would be another two years before the IRB in the North set up it's paramilitry force, the Irish Volunteers. A couple of weeks later in Dublin, the Irish Citizen Army was formed.

Boring, isn't it? Not at all the sort of detail you really want to put in a drama (unless you are Ken Loach). No wonder Sergio and his screenwriters kept it more simple, if streaching historical truth.


Logged

The Firecracker
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9672


Rub me the wrong way, and I'll go off in your face


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2006, 08:43:51 PM »



Boring, isn't it? Not at all the sort of detail you really want to put in a drama (unless you are Ken Loach). No wonder Sergio and his screenwriters kept it more simple, if streaching historical truth.




Not at all. I like your brilliant analysis on John being a wealthy man(or at least having friends in high places).

I tend to believe he was more of a chemistry guy than a miner.

Logged



The Official COMIN' AT YA! re-release site
http://cominatyanoir3d.com/
cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12770


easy come easy go


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2006, 08:58:29 PM »

You can look at it in a number of ways. One is that its the Mythical West in a parallel Leone universe. The other way is which phase of the MexRev (Mexican Revolution) are we talking about.

We have the Madero against Diaz starting in 1910.
then:
Orozco against Madero-Villa-Huerta.
Huerta against Madero-Villa-Zapata.
Carranza-Villa-Zapata-Obregon against Huerta.
Carranza-Obregon against Villa-Zapata.
Carranza against Obregon.
and then Obregon against Calles.
so it goes well into the mid 1920's

« Last Edit: April 20, 2006, 09:00:01 PM by cigar joe » Logged

"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
The Firecracker
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9672


Rub me the wrong way, and I'll go off in your face


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2006, 09:00:06 PM »


Huerta against Madero-Villa-Zapata.


isnt this the one the movie takes place in?

Logged



The Official COMIN' AT YA! re-release site
http://cominatyanoir3d.com/
cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12770


easy come easy go


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2006, 09:33:38 PM »

You tell me, I haven't ever really seen the film.

Logged

"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
The Firecracker
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9672


Rub me the wrong way, and I'll go off in your face


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2006, 09:38:59 PM »

You tell me, I haven't ever really seen the film.

oh thats right forgot.


well it isnt well established exactly what part of the MR it takes place in. The only link we have is some talk of current events with the rich passengers on the stagecoach and some political talk between the revolutionaries after Juan kills the governer.


I admit, I know little too nothing about the whole affair itself(The MR). I think the most important part of the story though is the growing friendship between the two main characters.

However this film has opened up my attention to that point in time in the country of mexico. I would really like to know more about the MR. I guess I will have to do research myself.

Logged



The Official COMIN' AT YA! re-release site
http://cominatyanoir3d.com/
cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12770


easy come easy go


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2006, 09:58:54 PM »

Its "confusion" for sure, and Madero was considered almost a "saint" so he's reffered to long after he was assasinated by Huerta.

Logged

"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
The Firecracker
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9672


Rub me the wrong way, and I'll go off in your face


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2006, 10:01:25 PM »

Its "confusion" for sure


I can Imagine. What little I know is already boggling my mind. Grin

Logged



The Official COMIN' AT YA! re-release site
http://cominatyanoir3d.com/
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Visit FISTFUL-OF-LEONE.COM

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.058 seconds with 19 queries.