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Author Topic: Plot Question  (Read 6089 times)
Timmy Mac
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« on: April 24, 2006, 08:17:28 AM »

Hey, all...

If there existed a way for me to get a DVD of this movie, I would just scan back and answer my own question.  But as it is, I'm stuck with OnDemand and, well, you guys.

After Juan and John blow up the bridge, the movie cuts quickly to Juan wandering around, sad, and then going out to face the Army alone.  We then see his massacred family.

Did I miss something?  Was there discussion of where they'd meet up after they took down the bridge?  Did I miss a scene in between the bridge and the dead family?  It seems really sudden, and I was left a little baffled.

Where was his family that the Army could massacre them before Juan got there?

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Juan Miranda
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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2006, 09:51:53 AM »

Yes, just before the rest of the army retreats, leaving John and Juan alone at the bridge, there is a hasty discussion of exactly where the army is going.

Villega has dictated the plan, which John is so scornfull of he (wisely as it turns out) declines to go with them and make his stand. Juan thinking he is up to something elects to stay too, thus accidently saving his own life.

So, we are told exactly where they heading for. I don't have my DVD here with me at the moment, so I'm afraid I can't give you exact dialogue at the moment.

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Don_Wiley_Quixote
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« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2006, 10:27:25 AM »

Doesn't Juan say go back to the cave/grotto and if all goes wrong every man for himself ? Maybe their location was betrayed by the doctor.


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Timmy Mac
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« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2006, 10:30:18 AM »

Doesn't Juan say go back to the cave/grotto and if all goes wrong every man for himself ?

Yeah, that part I got.  But I took the fact that they blew the bridge and Army to pieces to mean that everything went right.

Who came and killed the family in the grotto?  They killed/blew up the force they were fleeing from, right?

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boardwalk_angel
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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2006, 10:57:33 AM »

 **Spoiler**



It doesn't really become crystal clear until later...when John discovers the doctor is a collaborator...
........and then we can figure out that he betrayed their hiding place...& surmise that a contingent of troops slaughtered them all.

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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2006, 02:06:01 PM »

"me and the Irelander here are going to cacth us a couple of the f**king locusts, and if things go bad here its every man for himself! you move your asses!"

that quote is from memory so a line or two maybe missing.

Before Jaun proclaims this (trying to look like he has "balls") Villega makes mention of the rendevous point(which is the grotto).

« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 02:16:34 PM by The Firecracker » Logged



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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2006, 02:18:03 PM »

Yeah, that part I got.  But I took the fact that they blew the bridge and Army to pieces to mean that everything went right.

Who came and killed the family in the grotto?  They killed/blew up the force they were fleeing from, right?

good question. If Ruiz was without his tank how did he make it to the grotto before Juan and John did? Could be that another platoon of mexcian soldiers found and captured Villega.
There could be a missing scene in between the blowing of the bridge and the grotto sequence to explain why John and Juan were delayed. maybe it was that "gramaphone" flashback sequence everybody talks about...

« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 02:20:24 PM by The Firecracker » Logged



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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2006, 07:37:52 PM »

good question. If Ruiz was without his tank how did he make it to the grotto before Juan and John did? Could be that another platoon of mexcian soldiers found and captured Villega.
There could be a missing scene in between the blowing of the bridge and the grotto sequence to explain why John and Juan were delayed. maybe it was that "gramaphone" flashback sequence everybody talks about...

Suddenly everybody is talking about it now? Grin

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dave jenkins
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« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2006, 08:37:07 AM »

From Sorting Out the Versions, an analysis of Duck You Sucker by Glenn Erickson (on Disc 2 of the S.E. DVD):

"The script called for a different order of events. After the battle at the bridge, Dr. Villega goes to a rebel safehouse to look after a sick man and is captured by the Mexican commander [sic] Gunther Ruiz. There follows a sylized torture sequence, the film's best known deleted scene. Dr. Villega resists, but soon yields the information demanded by Ruiz. Back at the safehouse, John and Juan learn that the doctor has been captured. Juan hurries to warn the rest of the rebels in the cave grotto, while John tracks Villega to town and  sees him at the execution of their former confederates. Then John returns to the grotto to discover what Juan already knows, that Villega's confessions have already resulted in a second mass murder."

« Last Edit: May 12, 2006, 10:08:35 AM by dave jenkins » Logged


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« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2006, 10:48:13 AM »

If the film actually had this order of events it would be very strange as someone already mentioned that Gunther Ruis had beat Juan and John to Dr. Villega as he was stranded in the middle of the desert as well as they were. I didn't think there was anything hard to understand when I watched the 138 minute cut, as we see the bodies along with Juan's sad reaction, but the long version does not reveal what happened until later in that scene.

The part that I didn't understand at all was the scene where Juan blows up John's employer. But there already is another discussion on that.

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« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2006, 11:38:36 AM »



The part that I didn't understand at all was the scene where Juan blows up John's employer.


He blew up the german so John could be free to come to Mesa Verde with him.

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« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2006, 11:15:26 AM »

Yeah, I pretty much got that but here's what I din't get:

How did John get to that church?

Where did the bottle come from?

Why did he plant explosives when he heard Juan's boys?

How would Juan know he'd planted the explosives by the time his employer arrived?

How did Juan know where to locate John?

Why did John agree to go to Mesa Verde with Juan?

These questions pussled me ever dince I saw the full english dub of the film. The scene was completely missing first time I saw it.

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The Firecracker
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« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2006, 11:22:33 AM »

Yeah, I pretty much got that but here's what I din't get:

How did John get to that church?

Where did the bottle come from?

Why did he plant explosives when he heard Juan's boys?

How would Juan know he'd planted the explosives by the time his employer arrived?

How did Juan know where to locate John?

Why did John agree to go to Mesa Verde with Juan?

These questions pussled me ever dince I saw the full english dub of the film. The scene was completely missing first time I saw it.


Most of those questions I am sure could have been answered by the deleted scene that came right before the dynamiting of the church scene.

The scene was similar to Blondie's forced walk through the desert in GBU. After John destroys Juan's stagecoach Juan forces John through the desert. At one point John finds a puddle of water to drink from, as he is going to have a gulp one of Juan's children pisses in the puddle before John could have a drink from it. I would imagine somewhere in that scene John escapes Juan and hides out in the church. This whole malicious toture walk through the desert would have given John reason to try and kill Juan and his family when they come looking for him again at the church. Sadly the scene has never been found after it was left on the cutting room floor.

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« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2006, 08:43:08 PM »

I think all of the deleted scenes from Leone's films will be eventually found in the future. People in Rome keep recovering old camera negatives from SWs in the vaults. I think DYS as well as the others is only a matter of time.

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The clint
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« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2006, 08:47:16 AM »

Then lets hope it will not be inserted into the film, it would make too much of a comparison with GB&U in my opinion, and would slow the film down too much. Including it as a deleted scene would be a better idea.

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